[00:00:00] Speaker A: Hello and welcome back to the Bench to Boardroom podcast. I am your host, Cynthia Steele, and today's guest is Dr. Edrit Havalosa of the Charcoal Marie Tooth Research Foundation.
I think I've introduced you to some pretty impressive women so far, but trust me, you ain't seen nothing yet. If we're thinking about career trajectory alone, nobody beats Dr. Edritz Havalosa. You'll see. You why she came originally from the Philippines and then moved with her family, first to Michigan and then to Arizona, where she did her undergraduate degree in neuroscience and then moved on to get her PhD in neuroscience at Stanford University. Edris is considered, or at the time she was considered, a first generation low income or fly student. And we talk about how that's important and why a sense of community was very important to her as she was pursuing her undergraduate degree and eventually her PhD.
After she graduated, she actually started working very quickly in the nonprofit sector. She spent a few years at the Muscular Dystrophy association, and it seems like she took on a different job almost every year she was there working in clinical research, working in database research, and then finally moving on to more like a portfolio management role, which altogether prepared her to become now the chief scientific officer at the Charcomary Tooth Research foundation. But as you'll hear, Edrits is very deliberate about her career choices, and she took some time, really, to think about whether or not this was a role that she wanted, whether or not this was a role that she felt she would be a good fit for. And at the end of the day, by asking for help and explaining early on what her shortcomings in this particular role would be, she ended up getting more than she even hoped for in this new position. And it's really a very remarkable story.
Hers is a story I'm looking forward to watching as time goes on because she is not done by any stretch. I look forward to seeing what she does next. But for now, here's my interview with Dr. Edrick Havalosa.
Dr. Edrit Havalosa, thank you so much for coming to bedship boardroom today.
[00:02:49] Speaker B: Thank you, Dr. Steele, for having me here. And this is very exciting. I'm excited.
[00:02:55] Speaker A: I'm so excited too, because I only know peripherally about your organization through a friend who has a grant through you guys. And so I'm looking forward to talking to you about your journey.
We can talk some disease states, and then if there's anybody listening who is interested in applying for one of your grants, maybe we can talk about that.
[00:03:17] Speaker B: Definitely. So, yeah, let's go ahead.
[00:03:21] Speaker A: Yeah, let us know. Introduce yourself.
[00:03:24] Speaker B: So my name is Edrit Hevalosa.
I did my PhD at Stanford University, where I received my degree in neuroscience.
Previous to that, I attended the University of Arizona, where I received my bachelor's of science in molecular and cellular biology.
Going outside a little bit of science. I was born in the Philippines. I lived there for years. And, you know, my, I think my immigrant story has just kind of brought me to the US. And that's kind of really where my educational journey started. And so lived in Michigan right after the US first experience in snow and having white, very cold, you know. Nonetheless, it was still exciting.
And then after two years, my family and I moved to Arizona, where I did the rest of high school and attended university. And then was very motivated by some of my professors and realized how I wanted to stay in science and wanted to know how can I become a professor?
And so that's kind of where my educational journey also started at the University of Arizona, wanting to do more exploration in science and understanding the biology.
As we all know, biology is so complicated, which is what makes it great.
And so that eventually led me to a summer internship at Stanford University in the neuroscience department, and initially at that summer worked on neurodegeneration. And so I had such a great experience not only with the science, but also having the type of support that I had during that summer, I think was probably the biggest factor in pursuing graduate.
So I was like all, well, I want to do research.
Let me try and see if I can get into Stanford.
And one story after the other, here I am.
[00:06:15] Speaker A: Amazing.
[00:06:16] Speaker B: Still in California now working for a nonprofit organization that is focused on CMT, which stands for Sharkamari tooth.
[00:06:28] Speaker A: Okay, wonderful. So I actually want to ask you because I honestly don't know what is the school system like in the Philippines? And what was your science education like? Was there something that sparked your interest as a little kid or was it when you came to the US? Can you tell us about that?
[00:06:47] Speaker B: I think I was a little more curious. I think I was just like such a curious child.
I don't necessarily think that my interest in science stemmed from my classes specifically.
I can only speak in terms of, I guess we didn't have middle school there, so it was like elementary from 6th grade and then high school, but started 7th grade till eigth, 9th and 10th. I don't know if that has changed.
It might have, but I'm not sure.
But the way our classes were structured there is that the students actually don't move classrooms. So that was nice. We just stayed, and then the teachers would come in.
It's all mostly lecture based.
The difference that I feel like was a big change in terms of the structure of the science classes in the Philippines and my science classes in middle school and high school was that there's always some sort of lab component.
So you get to tinker, which is, I think, the best part of it. I am such a visual and kind of like mechanical person. So the best way for me to learn is to either see it and visualize it, or I'm doing something with my hands.
And so I think growing up, I was just exposed to so many stimuli in my environment in terms of the nature that is in the tropical area.
And then also, okay, this might be very corny.
I used to watch Bill Nye the science guy growing up.
There was another cartoon show, oh, gosh, I can't remember what it was called. It has something with the bus.
[00:09:09] Speaker A: Oh, the magic school bus.
[00:09:11] Speaker B: Yes, the magic school bus. Oh, my gosh. I enjoyed watching those growing up. And I think that also fueled my curiosity.
[00:09:19] Speaker A: Sure.
[00:09:22] Speaker B: Yeah. And so I think that curiosity has just sort of built up over then, you know, really going into science more, I would say was fueled when I came to the US because of lab components and really tying the fury with the.
[00:09:48] Speaker A: Actually, I really agree with that because I'm not a great memorizer, which didn't really help me when I was taking a subject like gross anatomy, for example, where there's no mechanism.
This is the structure, and this is what it does, and this is where it's located. And without that context, it was incredibly difficult for me. And as phds, as scientists, we're not taught to just memorize things using acronyms or using any sort of devices.
All the different ways that they used to memorize, like the brachial plexus, for example.
They had all these crazy sayings that they used to use. And I want to see the context. I want to see how it fits in. And it was really in grad school when I started to really appreciate that because, for example, we would learn about the map kinase cascade. Maybe that morning I just learned about Irk and junk and all those pathways. And then I would see a scientific poster where they would use an inhibitor of Irk or junk, and I would say, I just learned about that. And so that would solidify things in my head. So I agree with you. I'm not sure at the time how much I appreciated the lab component other than it gave us a chance to get up and move around. But I think, in retrospect, it was incredibly helpful to solidify the information that I was learning.
[00:11:20] Speaker B: Right. Yeah. And I think that is one thing for me as well.
And I think my background as being the first in my family to be able to get a degree, not just with a PhD, but also as a bachelor of science, is that it's really important to be able to even relay, what are you doing? In a manner where someone without a science degree can relate to?
[00:11:52] Speaker A: Yes, absolutely.
[00:11:53] Speaker B: I think that's always kind of always in the back of my mind, and so everything that I do, I'm just like, okay, well, like you said, you're looking at an inhibitor for Irk.
What does the inhibitor do? And then people know what disease means.
So if you can apply it to something that's relatable, then folks will be able to understand, like, oh, okay, this is what it means. This is what the pathway is supposed to be doing, and then be able to relate it to, oh, it causes this type of disease. But if stop what's in between, maybe we stop the disease.
[00:12:42] Speaker A: Right.
Did your parents also look like deer in the headlights at your defense? Because mine definitely did.
[00:12:50] Speaker B: Well, actually. Were they there? No, they weren't there for my defense, and this was before the time that they had zoom.
So they did come for my graduation.
[00:13:06] Speaker A: Nice.
[00:13:06] Speaker B: But for the defense, nice.
But whenever it comes to explanation of what I'm doing or even my degree, what my degree was in bachelor's, I have to really simplify it.
[00:13:26] Speaker A: My parents will say, cindy's a doctor, but not like, a real doctor. But she's like, a professor. Like, there's no such thing as a professor doctor. But okay, yeah, I would argue we are real doctors.
[00:13:41] Speaker B: Yes, we are real doctors. It's just a different kind of doctor. Yes.
[00:13:46] Speaker A: We just don't deal with patients. But then again, you do. In some ways. You kind of do.
[00:13:52] Speaker B: Some ways. I kind of do. But I don't give diagnosis.
[00:13:56] Speaker A: Correct.
[00:13:57] Speaker B: That's the biggest part, because I've definitely had people from my old hometown, they're like, oh, neuroscience brain doctor.
Let me just message her and ask her, hey, I've been having these symptoms.
I'm like, I would recommend that you.
[00:14:19] Speaker A: Go see a medical doctor as an eye person. I get that all the time.
Actually, my mother in law will text me sometimes and say, dad's had some floaters. Like, there's been a lot of floaters in his eye lately. Or his doctor says his pressure is up a little bit. Okay, well, that's okay. Just make sure he takes his vitamins and et cetera, et cetera. In contrast, my real father has glaucoma, and he won't tell me anything. Like, dad, what's your pressure? Like? He's like, I don't know. How are your eye drops? They're fine.
[00:14:55] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:14:58] Speaker A: It'S such, like an immigrant man thing. Like, no, I'm fine. Don't want to talk about it.
So you mentioned being a first generation student. So tell me about that. Tell me what that means to you.
[00:15:13] Speaker B: Yeah, so there's this acronym fly.
So FlI, which means first generation, low income. And I didn't really know what this terminology meant until I came to the states. Again, there's a lot of discovery coming to the states. New environment, new culture.
And when I attended college, it almost seemed like my fellow classmates already knew what was going on in college.
Even the topics, it just seemed like it clicked for them.
And I think when I would have discussions with some of my fellow classmates, I'd hear like, oh, yeah, my dad or my mom is in the scientific field. They do this, they do that, and they have those resources for them, which is very different from my own experience because I can't go back to my family and like, hey, we had this discussion about astrocytes, for example, and they would just give me a blank face, or they would probably tell me to go ask my uncle, who is a doctor, like an MD, for example.
And so I think I found myself. There's definitely this struggle as I continued to pursue higher education.
But I also understood that I just have to be resourceful in other ways so that I can get the type of support that I need that I don't necessarily have at home.
[00:17:17] Speaker A: Sure.
[00:17:19] Speaker B: And I really found that community was such an important component to becoming successful in my educational career.
I was fortunate enough that during my time at the University of Arizona that I came across the program.
And so the McNair program is actually a national program.
Different institutions do have to apply for grants for this type of program, and it helps undergraduate students to continue pursuing higher education, specifically in PhD programs.
And I think that was really a pivotal point when I wanted to go into research because I think it was the first time I ever set foot in a lab.
I was a part of this program.
Back it up. I'm sorry, that is completely false, because I did get a summer internship before I started the McNair program.
That first summer internship did help me get into the McNair program because it kind of backs up my interest in pursuing was back.
[00:19:03] Speaker A: You said that was what, freshman, sophomore year in college.
[00:19:07] Speaker B: Yes. So I think my first summer internship was around sophomore year and then the McNair program. I started my third year of college.
Yeah. And then kind of continued know throughout the remainder of my time at the University of actually, because the McNair program, they provide you funding for the summer when you're doing research work.
My first year, it was mandatory that we stayed within the institution to do the summer program. But my second year, I had a little bit more flexibility.
And so that gave me the opportunity to explore beyond the University of Arizona and email professors like, hey, I have some money, I have funding for the summer. Do you need an intern to work for you for ten weeks?
[00:20:17] Speaker A: Wow.
I bet you had a fair amount of interest.
[00:20:21] Speaker B: Surprisingly, a lot of them said no because either they already took in summer interns and don't have the capacity, or they don't have a mentor that would for one on one mentoring.
But Stanford was the one who said yes compared to other California schools. So that's part of the reason I ended up doing a summer internship at Stanford at that time. And then know was fortunate enough to really have such a, I would say such a colorful experience, just experience in a lab that was so supportive and just full of postdocs because it was different from my previous research experiences and then going to a new institution or being in California, for example.
[00:21:25] Speaker A: And you're probably surrounded by other international students, right?
[00:21:30] Speaker B: Yes, a lot of international students. And funny enough, my college experience, I met a lot of international students because I had to work part time at the national center.
[00:21:46] Speaker A: Oh, there you.
[00:21:50] Speaker B: Was. Yeah, it was always exposed to all kinds of people, different institutions, different cultures.
[00:21:58] Speaker A: That's really neat. Is that what sparked your interest in Dei?
[00:22:03] Speaker B: Not necessarily. I think it was more of my own experience as a first gen, low income student and also understanding how much there's so much bias in the sciences, and it goes beyond sciences. As we look at, we listen to the news, we listen to different, or we read different articles. At the height of the pandemic, so much was happening.
And so I think it's really those different factors that kind of helped me push efforts to stay involved and be proactive in bringing in more representation, diversification, equity and inclusion in the sciences.
And oftentimes you probably see more professors who come from, who are male, white male professors. It's not very uncommon to see that.
And that influences your own experiences.
[00:23:17] Speaker A: Absolutely.
[00:23:19] Speaker B: I didn't know how to become a professor when I was like, oh, I want to be a professor? But my initial thinking at that time, I was like, oh, but I don't look like any of them. There's only a few female professors, and only my female professors were the ones, like, you can go to.
You can become a professor. You just have to attend grad school, do more research experiences.
And so I think, for me, that really was so important to know. I was like, well, if I'm feeling like this already, what are other women in the stem field feeling in particular? Women of color as well, and come from first generation, low income and other types of identities that are not represented in the STEM field?
[00:24:13] Speaker A: Absolutely. I think that's so important.
I just had a conversation very recently with some colleagues, and it was the previous episode that came out before this one, where we actually did mention how companies like the concept of Dei. And it's almost like this month is black awareness month, and then June is pride month, and they kind of drape themselves in that just for that one month.
There's rainbow flags everywhere, but July 1 comes and they're gone. And we feel like it's this beautiful idea, this diversity, equity, inclusion. And they can sometimes talk the talk. A lot of companies are good at talking the talk, but when it actually comes to walking the walk, they're not so great. And I love that you actually had that initiative to talk to some of your female professors and say, I don't look like that. I don't speak like that. I don't think like that. None of these men have had the experiences in their lives that I've had.
Do I fit in? Can I fit in? And we were just at a meeting over the weekend, and, I mean, the foundation that held the meeting does a very good job bringing in women and people of color. And there's a lot of diversity when it comes to the panel moderators, but the companies will still send, typically an old white man.
It was very typical. And unfortunately, mantles are just part of our lives at this point.
[00:25:48] Speaker B: I've never heard that before. Mantles.
[00:25:51] Speaker A: Mantles.
Is it perfect?
It's so sad. And one of my friends actually said to me, I didn't even notice it until you said something, because we're just so used to it. So I love knowing that there are people like you out there, and there's others who really do try to advocate. And certainly something that I try to do here at the podcast is to say, you can come from anywhere. You can start from anywhere. We all start in this very small space.
We're just tinkering in the lab, we're subbing slides. We're learning how to slice brain tissue or whatever it may be. But eventually you can grow and you can expand, and if you have the right people behind you, then that can definitely make a huge difference. So it doesn't matter if you grow up thinking you're going to become a vice president of a company someday. Most of the vice presidents did not think that's what they were going to do when they first started out. So I think it's great that that was also your experience, and you actually looked ahead and thought, can I actually do this?
[00:27:01] Speaker B: Yeah. And I think that's maybe just part of personal experience incorporated into the scientific journey where moving from one country to a whole nother country where I didn't know what to expect.
I only knew what America was like based on movies and what to expect.
So it's different. Right. And then sometimes it's just a matter of putting yourself out there to really understand whether you're able to do this or not. You quickly learn some of the things that you don't like. At least that's how it works for me. It's easier for me to identify what doesn't work versus what works because, again, I'm so curious. I love to learn. I'm always wanting to know what's happening here, what's happening there. Sometimes it's hard to narrow down trial and errors.
[00:28:10] Speaker A: And I think it's important to also emphasize that you can ask. There are people who you can talk to. And when you find people that you can trust, you can share these questions, these concerns with, whether it be a mentor, mother or father figure or just a friend, because we're all having these same thoughts, we're all having these same feelings. And so you don't have to deal with it alone, I guess, is what I'm trying to say.
[00:28:43] Speaker B: Yes. And then it goes back again to having that community that's really important.
And I'm trying to think of the word that was used when I was in grad school. Your hype.
[00:29:00] Speaker A: Yes. Yes. Actually, I love that, Edgar. It's because I mentioned that to some graduate students that I was talking to.
Got to find. You have to have that friend. We all have at least a couple of friends who will say, like, yeah, you've got this.
Yes, you should apply because you are qualified and you are awesome, and they would be so lucky to have you. Yeah, I like that. Everyone needs a hype crew.
[00:29:27] Speaker B: Yes, definitely. And you just said you should apply because you're qualified and I think it kind of goes back to Dei as well.
And they've done studies with this too, where women would look at an application and if they don't fit, all of the boxes don't apply. But with men they just go for it. Right. I think for my own personal experience, sometimes I do get the hesitation as well. But then I remember, why am I hesitating? I don't necessarily have to have all of the qualifications met. It's rather more of the journey that you take versus not getting it because you didn't put yourself out there.
[00:30:18] Speaker A: Absolutely.
That's actually why I so far have only interviewed women, because our journeys are totally different and how we are encouraged or discouraged and how we are pushed or not pushed is completely different from a man's perspective. And in large part it does have to do, in some ways with society. It has something to do with the way we're brought up. But I also feel like there's other considerations, like will I still be able to be a good provider, a good mother, a good wife, a good sibling, a good friend?
We take on so much care, work in a way, and that always comes into consideration whenever you're applying for a new job or something that's very intensive. Not only does that impostor syndrome kind of creep in and say, you may not be qualified for this job, but on top of that, maybe you look at a job that's 50% travel, well, you're thinking of who's going to take care of my pets, who's going to take care of my kids, God, in some ways, who's going to take care of my husband, you know what I mean?
I guess in a way, our way of thinking, it seems to me like it's more complex. There's always more ways, more things that we think about as we're entering a new sphere or a new era in our lives.
[00:31:50] Speaker B: So many dimensions and different factors that we have to include.
So, yes, it's never just like one narrow thinking. It's like, okay, what would happen if I do this? What would happen to that? Do I have this experience? How can I relate my current experience now to what they're asking for?
[00:32:13] Speaker A: Yeah, totally. So I ask everyone this question I'm going to ask you as well. I'm very curious about your answer when you were at Stanford and you're getting your, this is too much, I'm done. I don't want to do this anymore. What was your give it all up and runaway fantasy job.
[00:32:36] Speaker B: Was my give it all up, runaway fantasy job I know, make cupcakes.
[00:32:45] Speaker A: Friends of mine were going to open coffee shops and things like that. You know what I mean? There's only one person I've talked to who has said, I've just always wanted to be a chemist. And I say, okay, that's incredibly boring.
[00:33:01] Speaker B: I got into rock climbing, more into rock climbing, especially outdoor rock climbing while in graduate school.
And I would probably say, yeah, if I could have been like a guide or something as a instructor, I think that would have been such a great alternative.
And I say that because I still think about it, too. Till this day, it hasn't gone away.
And I think the one thing I like about rock climbing is that again, you're exposed to different stimuli. You're outside.
It's a form of meditation, so it does something to your brain chemistry and physiology. You're working your body, you're trying to get up that mountain. And so there's always components of science.
I do find these types of activities a lot more exciting and very interesting.
[00:34:15] Speaker A: Sure.
[00:34:15] Speaker B: Because again, I think it's always just going to be about science, but how can I relate that to other parts of me that doesn't necessarily involve being in a bench?
[00:34:29] Speaker A: Yeah, I love that. I do think exercise can be very meditative, even just out for a walk, out for a jog.
Honestly, my husband and I are scuba divers, and I find that to be very meditative because there's literally nothing else you can do. Just breathe and float along and look for things and look at things. There's nothing else you can do. You can't even talk in those moments.
We have very creative hand signals for each other as we try to communicate nonverbally. But there's just something really wonderful about being able to quiet your mind and especially, like, just on a walk or on a jog or something and just shake off some of that extra anxiety. And then when you're done and you have this clearer head, things become much clearer after that. Like this thing that you've been mulling over for days, suddenly you're like, oh, it's so simple. Exactly.
[00:35:33] Speaker B: And I don't know if you had the same experience in graduate school or just when you were doing your research in the lab, is that oftentimes you come to a blockage with your experiments and challenges, and you can beat your head over and over and over again. But sometimes it might just require you to walk away. Walk away from the bench, go home, reset, come back with a refreshed mind, and then you're like, oh, okay, this is what happened?
[00:36:07] Speaker A: Actually, my mentor used to have those days and he would tell us, like, look, if you can't even get a protein assay to work, just put everything down, walk away. Your western block can stay for another day. It's not a big deal. Go home and shake it off. Like, whatever it is, go home, shake it off, come back tomorrow.
And I always appreciated that because certainly there were days that we all were like, nothing's working.
I'm just going to go make cupcakes, but I will see you tomorrow.
I can't.
[00:36:42] Speaker B: Makes you feel better.
[00:36:43] Speaker A: Yes, exactly.
So let's talk about how you got that first job. So you wanted to be a professor. When did that change?
[00:36:54] Speaker B: I think it changed when I found out funding is such a big deal in academia. And I think with the amount of phds that are available within the United States versus the amount of academic jobs, it's such a competitive field.
And again, going back to Dei, it does seem to be overwhelming. It does get overwhelming.
And I think for me, I came to an understanding where, okay, well, what are some of the values that are important to me and how can I find those values in my next phase of my career? And understanding that I don't necessarily have to mentor in an academic space, be able to do science outside of an academic institution, and also still create impact, then that made me realize, like, okay, I don't necessarily have to be a professor to be able to influence the younger generation and be able to have impactful work. And so understanding what those values are, it helped me find avenues or different institutions or companies and organizations where I could still do science work, but then be able to have impactful work as well.
Yeah, actually I did this survey. I think it's through science where you put in all the different values that are important to you and then you kind of rank them. And then actually the first thing that popped out was medical science liaison.
So I was just like, oh, what is a medical science liaison at that time?
[00:39:13] Speaker A: Everyone wants to know.
[00:39:15] Speaker B: Yeah. And then I think that was the other thing, too, that I was going through while I was in graduate school is just a lot of path finding because I know my institution at the time, at least the program directors, they were very supportive in terms of careers beyond academia, but there wasn't really a lot of information that is being provided. So there's still a lot of proactive endeavors that you have to do yourself to find know what's out there for someone with a PhD in science.
[00:40:00] Speaker A: Totally. Is that my IDP that you're talking.
[00:40:03] Speaker B: Yes, yes, that's what it was called.
[00:40:06] Speaker A: The very, very first episode of this podcast is with my very dear friend, Alicia Case. And she still uses my IDP. She used it to help her, as you say, help guide her towards what she wanted to do. But I think she still uses it when it comes to her own career development and thinking about next steps. And actually, another friend actually knows the person who created my IDP. So it's amazing how much impact it's made.
[00:40:36] Speaker B: Yes. And I do think those are tools that you can keep in your resource folder.
And I'm constantly thinking about, okay, well, I've harnessed this new skill or knowledge.
What could that look like in the future, and how could I utilize that, and what does the next career look like? So I'm always thinking, what does that look like professionally? Is there growth in my current state, and what would that look like? Or what would I want for my future state?
[00:41:16] Speaker A: I think that's so important because in a lot of ways, and you hit the nail right on the head. I mean, there's so many phds and there's so little funding and the funding that is there. I joke NIH in general, but in my experience, the National Eye Institute, it feels like a force field, and you have to try to penetrate through that force field for them to even look at you. And then once they start looking at you, then you have to have a competitive score and who are you working with and who your letters from and everything. It's just such a challenging process. But I always maintain that that's not enough to abandon science. If that's what you truly want to do, you want to be at the bench, then don't give up.
This is still something that you can do. But if your values, you value communication, you value mentorship, you value free time, you value some sort of work life balance, and you just know in your heart, this is not a good fit for me.
You have to start there. And I love how you said that because I completely agree it has to come from your values versus I'm so frustrated, I'm just going to go teach somewhere because you're going to be miserable there, too, until you figure out what it is that you really want and find a job that fits in with your values at a company that fits your values, right?
[00:42:47] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly.
I think I was just lucky enough that while I was in my path finding, I guess, in 2019, just before I was finishing up with grad school, a friend of mine told me about patient advocacy groups, nonprofit sector, and I didn't even think about it at that time. And I was like, oh, wait, did they do science?
Because in my own assumption, it was just like, oh, they fundraise, they create community types of events, really bringing in community and some sort of educational components to it to know more about the diseases or what the program is about. And so when he had said, oh, yeah, I used to volunteer for the summer programs with the Muscular Dystrophy association.
They have a clinical and scientific department, but the scientific department, they don't do any research. So I started looking more into this, and I was like, oh, wow, they've been around for over 70 years and have contributed to research. And the same goes with the CMT Research foundation, which is the organization that I'm in with now, where we're really focused on funding research and pushing the amount of people who are trying to develop and find treatments and therapies with the hope of finding a cure. A lot of times, many diseases and CMT, charcoal, Marie Tooth, for example, to date, don't have cures.
And it does go back, kind of going back full circle in terms of, wow, how much impact can you make if you are trying to help funnel the amount of science, amount of research that's being done in this field? And then eventually something will come up. And I think such a gratifying feeling, and just even thinking about it is exciting.
[00:45:29] Speaker A: Absolutely.
So you started looking in 2019?
[00:45:37] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:45:38] Speaker A: Okay. And we just started 2024. So I am to understand that in less than five years, you went from graduating with a PhD at Stanford, and now you are the chief scientific officer at the Sharkoomery Tooth foundation.
[00:45:53] Speaker B: Yes, that's correct.
[00:45:55] Speaker A: That is a meteoric rise, and I do not think you should downplay that at all. That is unbelievable.
[00:46:01] Speaker B: Thank you.
[00:46:03] Speaker A: Let's talk about this meteoric rise that you've had. So you go from graduating and you learning about these patient advocacy groups. So what was your first role at the muscular Dystrophy foundation?
[00:46:16] Speaker B: So I actually worked with the clinical research group. And so what that entailed. And then, mind you, I started in October 2019 and then pandemic hit in early 2020.
[00:46:32] Speaker A: Talk about timing.
[00:46:34] Speaker B: Yes.
And so I was the regional director for the Northern California Pacific Northwest and a Pacific Northwest, and Alaska was also part of my, you know, we didn't have a clinic at that time in Alaska. And so there's a lot of relationships with. So it's very similar to medical science.
[00:47:06] Speaker A: Liaisons that in and of itself, I want to linger on that point for a second because so many people, they hear about the MSL role. It is a phenomenal role if you can get it challenging, does present its challenges, but it's a wonderful job opportunity. It's a wonderful career to have.
But you are the first person to talk about an MSL like role in the nonprofit sector. And so I just want to emphasize that, that there may be opportunities like this in regions where maybe our listeners haven't even thought about.
[00:47:42] Speaker B: Yes. Yeah. And I think there are some distinct features between my role, then, at MDA versus what an MSL actually really does. There's a lot of similarities where there's KOl relationships.
The difference with my role at the time is that I wasn't necessarily talking about results or analysis of the drug because we didn't develop drugs. Sure.
And I wasn't in the research department at that time either.
So it was really closely talking to the KoLs in terms of what are their needs, what's happening within the organization, how can we collaborate and help each other?
What are some of the needs of the patients as well? Because those are sites where they have MDA clinics.
[00:48:43] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:48:44] Speaker B: Yeah.
So I did that for October 2019 till probably March 2020, where I would pop in to the clinic, say, hi, hello, how are things going? Be able to interact with a few patients? And then with the pandemic, we all went virtually.
So that also caused some reorganization of the organization.
And I think I had nine people at that time who was working with me.
[00:49:29] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:49:30] Speaker B: And with the pandemic, I ended up having, I think, one person.
[00:49:37] Speaker A: Yeah.
Travel based roles kind of fell apart when we couldn't go anywhere anymore.
[00:49:43] Speaker B: Yeah. And that was the hard part with a lot of foundations and nonprofits, is because a lot of the fundraising was in person, and so there was a lot of pivot. And how can we come up with novel ways to do this virtually and still be able to make money so then we can keep funding the programs that we're already doing?
Eventually, I was the regional director, then I went to the research department, actually. So I went to the science department, and I worked for one year, about a year, in developing, kind of helped develop our database, our data hub, and really putting some more infrastructure there. And that was very interesting and fun because I learned something new. I've never worked on databases before and putting together governance and how the data should be used.
So that was, again, my curious mind was being fulfilled.
But after a year, I went into a portfolio director role.
[00:51:09] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:51:11] Speaker B: Partly because our portfolio director at that time had moved on to a different organization. And so our EVP has said, hey, we really need someone with a PhD for this type of role. Would you be interested? And I think for me, what was so interesting about it was that you'd be able to follow the science a little bit more closely because our projects that the organizations have funded already, and then you also get to experience grant management.
What would happen the process when applicants are sending in their proposals. So I think it was such a cool thing to be entrenched in the sciences and the research without having to do the research myself.
[00:52:08] Speaker A: I know, right?
[00:52:12] Speaker B: Yeah. And then all of that experience, actually, as a research portfolio director, really helped funnel in the transition to my current position.
Before I had left the Muscular Dystrophy Association, I was already collaborating and working with CMT Research foundation. While I was with MDA. We were able to do a co funding for a, you know, that time really helped me get to know the folks at CMT Research foundation.
And when their CSO left, he was so nice, such a great person and also scientist, and did a lot for the foundation. And he emailed me personally and had said that he was going to a different organization.
And then the CSO role is available at that time. And I think going back to imposter syndrome and knowing that I've only have this much experience under my belt, I don't know if I'm capable of doing this.
And I didn't apply right away. I didn't apply for the position right away. And it wasn't until probably two months after he had sent that email that I reached out to the CEO and I had asked her, just out of curiosity, if they found a CSO.
And for me, it was genuinely wanting to, oh, it would be great to meet them, talk about different collaborations.
And she responded, no, they haven't. If I knew someone who would be a good fit to let her know I was at a conference at that time. So I wasn't able to respond right away. And then I see a follow up email asking if I was interested by any chance, and again kind of went back to, oh, man, I don't know if I'm interested, I just don't know if I'm capable.
[00:54:57] Speaker A: Yeah, of course.
[00:54:59] Speaker B: And I think there was a lot of talking myself into just try.
The worst thing you can get is a no.
[00:55:09] Speaker A: Sure.
[00:55:10] Speaker B: And it kind of goes back to my philosophy where if you don't put yourself out there, you're never going to know what's going to happen.
I'd rather just try it than not trying and regretting.
And so I did, and I've had multiple conversations during the interview process.
I was very candid in terms of, I'm young, I still have a lot of experiences that I need to learn, and this would be a huge learning curve for me if I take on this role. As long as you're comfortable with that, then I think it'll be okay.
And so since the day I've started, I've had tremendous support, and my CEO actually gave me this amazing gift.
Never had it happen to me before where she provided an executive coach for me.
Yeah. And funny enough, because my friends and I were just talking about, oh, yeah, someone in our group had an executive coach, and it was amazing. And I was just like, oh, that would be so cool to have. And then eventually my CEO, my boss was like, well, I hope you see this as a gift.
I was just like, oh, my gosh, yes. Thank you so much. This is amazing.
[00:56:54] Speaker A: So what is an executive coach? Describe what this person does for you.
[00:56:58] Speaker B: So we usually try to identify goals for the week.
I think we met every biweekly. I believe we met biweekly, and she just guides me in the thinking process.
Why am I doing this? Do I understand what the goals are? Do people who are involved in this project or tasks know what they're doing and what the expectations are?
How to communicate with different groups of people, as simple as, for example, sending an email to get people to be accountable and be very understanding of your leadership style as well. So I thought that was really helpful for me.
She didn't know the science, but knew how to work with people. How do I make myself as a leader and just kind of hone that?
What's the word I'm looking for?
Be able to gain more confidence even though you don't necessarily have this specific experience?
Right?
[00:58:46] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:58:48] Speaker B: And tying that into my leadership style. So there's specific words that we would use that would feel comfortable for me because sometimes I'm like, that doesn't really sound like me.
Exactly.
Fitting those different synergies in a way that I'm comfortable in a more professional setting as well.
[00:59:12] Speaker A: Absolutely. So there's so much about this story that I absolutely love, and I think my first question is, between the time that you were originally approached about this role and then the second time you're approached for this role, and eventually you're going through the interview process, what were you thinking about as you were thinking about this role? Besides, can I do this?
I guess. What were some of your other considerations as you thought about moving from this one role? At one foundation to this major leadership role in another organization. What were you thinking about?
[00:59:56] Speaker B: Yeah, I think support was really a big deal for me, and I think that's why I was very candid interview phase, because also for me, with the know, we were a much larger organization. While EMT Research foundation is smaller, it's newer, but they have a lot going on. Know. And so I think understanding that if I take on this role, would I have the type of support that I would need? Because research is such a big component, if not the component research foundation.
[01:00:42] Speaker A: Sure.
And I think that's really important because I think especially as students and as postdocs, we always feel like we have to have the answer.
And I would tell people all the time, it's okay if you don't know the answer. And when I was an MSL, I would tell sales reps this all the time. If you don't know, tell them you don't know. You can find a more eloquent or fun way to say it, whatever your style is. But it's perfectly fine to say, I'm not sure. Let me get my MSL to contact, you know, I'll get somebody at the company to find a paper or something, find that resource for you, and it's okay. And as somebody who started a new job full time at the beginning of this year, and something very different for me, I ask all the time, I have no problem telling people I'm still new.
What does that acronym mean? Or what is the appropriate process for this or for this? Because once you dive into the science, then that's kind of like the comfort zone, right? But it's everything else that's built around it that can seem so intimidating. And so I love that you're very candid. I'm young, you're very young. I have no experience in this role. I will need help.
And you got it, I guess I want to emphasize that it's okay to ask for help because you might end up with an incredibly supportive manager, boss, mentor who says, yeah, that's fine, we will help you. We will take care of you and bring you along, because otherwise, if you had said, yes and didn't say, yeah, I need help, maybe you would have still gotten it. But there are alternate universes where you would have been miserable because you would have just been completely overwhelmed. Right?
[01:02:45] Speaker B: Yes, exactly.
[01:02:47] Speaker A: I love that you led with that, and you took your time to think about it. My negotiation class, they always said, don't. If you need to walk away, you need to step out of the room.
That always gives me palpitations.
I have such fomo.
No, I can't walk away because what if. But you did, and you gave it a lot of thoughts, and I absolutely love that. That's wonderful.
Yeah.
[01:03:17] Speaker B: And I still do that with everything that I do to this day.
I would say when it comes to the professional side of me, I take a lot of time and processing, and then I'm trying to incorporate that as well with the personal aspects of my life as well. Sure. Just processing through everything. Try to be introspective and going back for a walk, for example, like you said, just stepping out, stepping out for a minute or two and breathe throughout the process as well.
[01:04:02] Speaker A: And maybe don't go from making that decision to doom scrolling on Instagram because that's not going to help you. You need to quiet your mind.
[01:04:11] Speaker B: Exactly. Yeah. Just minimize the noise and try to practice that focus as well.
[01:04:19] Speaker A: Back at your time at MDA, it seems like you had a lot of support for trying out these different roles. And I know not every organization is like that. So it seems like you were incredibly fortunate to work for people who said, yeah, you want to go from clinical trials to learning about research databases, and then you want to learn about managing portfolios, I guess. How did you do that? Who did you have to talk to? Or was there pushback on something like that? Or how did you do that?
[01:04:52] Speaker B: No, I don't think there was really pushback.
Again, like I said, I think it was just fortunate that I was fortunate to have bosses who were very supportive in terms of, here are my interests, can I dabble into this? Can I be a part of the group and trying to find synergies as well?
Yeah. And I think it was great because my boss really understood how important DEi was for me as well. So before I even left the muscular dystrophy association, I was able to help them create a summer program for undergraduates who come from nontraditional backgrounds and very much underrepresented, especially in the neuromuscular space. So the effort was to try and introduce them into neuromuscular research and studies. And so last summer was the pilot, and I think it went well. Wonderful.
And then they're continuing to do the program. So I was happy about that.
And I think that what makes a group and company very supportive or in terms of offer some of the great values because they're open to seeing your growth, not necessarily just about what they know. With CMT research foundation not even having to ask for it, my boss gave me an executive coach, which was amazing.
[01:06:57] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:06:58] Speaker B: And I think there's just so much value in that. And then you can go so much further.
I, you know, with the connections that you have with your colleagues or your own professional career, personal career.
And that's something that I think I will always look for whatever is in the near future for me.
[01:07:24] Speaker A: Right? Yeah. You are so far from retirement, I think you're going to take over the world at some point.
[01:07:31] Speaker B: I don't know about takeover the world, but do something impactful.
[01:07:38] Speaker A: That's always in general of the United States. How about that? You'll end up with an MD at some.
[01:07:44] Speaker B: Me, I was bouncing off ideas with my friend last night, and then I was just like, oh, you know what would be so good for travelers? So other thing that I'm really into is traveling, backpacking type of traveling, very minimal.
And so I told her, I was like, from my own experience, it would be great if we had this kind of service. I think it would just make it so much easier for the travelers. And then she said, how are you going to make money? I was like, oh, I didn't even think about that part.
It was more for the ease of the traveler and not necessarily trying to create how I'm going to be able to fund this or make profit out of it. And so I think my mind is always, like, thinking about the impact first versus monetary components of it.
[01:08:43] Speaker A: I love that.
So in the last couple of minutes that we have, I want to ask you, since earlier in this interview, we talked about your hype crew. So out of curiosity, if you could be somebody else's hype crew, so say there are some young, first generation, low income students who might be listening to this right now, and they're thinking, wow, maybe I'm feeling pretty inspired. Maybe I should consider a job in industry. Can you be that young ladies hype crew? What would you say? Or what do you say to students who need a little boost?
[01:09:26] Speaker B: Yeah. So I think what would be very helpful from my own experience, again, just use this as an example.
Be proactive. Don't limit yourself just because you don't check all of the boxes. I think it's always good to understand what works for you and find what is the best fit for you. Understanding. Again, going back to the values versus, oh, this was not great because I had to work from five to 10:00 p.m.. Right.
So understanding needs and values versus wants and then also ask for help, it's so important. And having those kinds of conversations because you'll never know the other person and what their experiences were like, unless you have those conversations and you might actually be able to connect and learn from their own experiences as well. So I would say go for it.
Of course. Have a plan.
Have a plan in terms of how you're going to go for it.
And trust in yourself that you're capable. You're more than capable.
[01:10:59] Speaker A: Absolutely.
[01:11:00] Speaker B: Put your mind into it.
There's dedication.
Yeah, definitely be achieved.
[01:11:08] Speaker A: I love that. How can people find you if they need to get in touch with you, or if they want to contact you for more info?
[01:11:17] Speaker B: Either email do I put in my, well, CMT Research foundation if you want to know a little bit more about the organization, and then you'd be able to find my email as well, which is edrits
[email protected] and if there are more follow up questions in regards to CMT or my professional and personal journey, I'm more than happy to have those conversations.
[01:11:53] Speaker A: Can people link up with you on LinkedIn?
[01:11:56] Speaker B: Yes, also LinkedIn. Yep.
[01:11:58] Speaker A: Okay.
[01:11:58] Speaker B: Edrica. Okay. I should be the only one, unless other Edrits. I'll have to meet them.
[01:12:07] Speaker A: I think you are, but yeah, that's a good point. Make sure it's the right one.
Dr. Etraz Havalosa, this has been an absolute delight.
You are incredibly inspirational, and I hope that everyone listening understands that it can be done with the right mindset, with the right people behind you.
You too can have a meteoric rise, and I cannot wait to see what you're going to be doing in five more years because I'm expecting big things.
[01:12:41] Speaker B: Thank you so much, Dr. Seal. Thank you for the kind words. And again, thank you for having me on your podcast. Such an honor.
[01:12:49] Speaker A: Of course. So nice talking to you. Thank you for being here.
Thank you once again. I want to thank Dr. Edrick's Havalosa for joining me today. For those of you who are interested in my IDP, this is the second time that my IDP has been mentioned on the bench to boardroom podcast as a resource for those who are looking for jobs as well as those who are just seeking further career development. I believe you can find
[email protected] or through Science magazine. If you're interested in charcoary tooth disease or charcomary tooth research, you can find more resources at the website that Edritz mentioned to you, and you can also contact her on LinkedIn if you have questions about the disease, about grants, or if you see a little bit of yourself and her and would like to talk a little bit more about her personal career trajectory.
As always, thank you very much for listening, and we'll see you next time.
