Organic Career Growth - Dr. Andrea Unser

[00:00:01] Speaker A: Hello, and welcome back to the Bench the Boardroom podcast. I am your host, Cynthia Steele, and today's guest is a good friend of mine, Doctor Andrea Unser from Humanix Biosciences. You have heard about humanix before because their chief scientific officer, doctor Karen Torhun, was our guest on episode four. So Andrea's job at Humonics is as a senior research scientist. She, she's been with the company since its very, very beginning. And so we talk a lot about the importance of flexibility in startup culture and how scientists, especially bench scientists, are particularly good at flexibility, because you have to be right. So Andrea was born and raised in Albany, New York, and her PhD is in nanoscale engineering, which she got from SUNY in Albany. And what's really great about Andreas story is that it grows organically. She wasn't necessarily someone who was born to a pair of scientists and just knew this is what she was going to do with her life. She figured out in high school that she was very good at chemistry, and she started college as an undeclared major, enjoyed her chemistry classes, except organic chemistry, which she and I can agree on. Organic chemistry is awful. But she continued to take chemistry classes until at some point her advisor was like, you're a chemistry major, right? And so she became a biochemistry major, and then she ended up taking a leap of faith and joined the nanoscale science program, where she ended up getting a master's and then eventually a PhD in that program. And I think, as many of you can imagine, that was a very heavily male dominated field. And she talks about how she remembers hearing some of her classmates saying, wow, we never see any women around here, you know, but also from the perspective of someone who was interested in chemistry, but maybe not to the scale that some of these other folks, particularly in an engineering program, thought. So she took this massive leap of faith, and it ended up serving her incredibly well in her career. So we talk about the importance of taking those leaps of faith. We talk about being willing to deviate from plan. Scientists are very big planners. And so we talk about how sometimes deviating from plan can actually be the best thing that ever happened to you. And then we talk about the importance of learning as many techniques as you can while you're in school or while you're in training. But even more importantly than that, we talk about the importance of being able to communicate those techniques because communication is a good indicator of your comprehension of the things that is that you're doing. So I hope you enjoy my conversation with Doctor Andrea Unser. Doctor Andrea Unser, welcome to bench to boardroom. [00:03:22] Speaker B: Thank you for having me, Cynthia. I'm so excited to be here. [00:03:24] Speaker A: I am so excited to have you here. So why don't you introduce yourself to the audience? [00:03:30] Speaker B: Absolutely. So I'm Doctor Andrea Unser. As Cynthia said, I'm a senior research scientist at Humonics Biosciences, formerly glauconics Biosciences. I'm a biochemist sort of by training. That's what my bachelor's degree is in. And then I have a master's of nanoscale science and a PhD of nanoscale science. And I also really love podcasts, so this is very exciting for me. [00:03:57] Speaker A: I think all bench scientists love podcasts, right. We have to have something going in our ears as we're, as we're working, right? [00:04:04] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. Especially I do a lot of confocal, as we'll talk about. And so I really love it when I'm doing confocal. [00:04:11] Speaker A: So, yeah, it makes the time go by faster. [00:04:14] Speaker B: Yes. [00:04:16] Speaker A: So I, I guess I wanted to ask you, you were born and raised in Albany, and where did the, where did the interest in science really come from? [00:04:27] Speaker B: You know, a lot of my story, as you will learn, is pretty organic. There was no, like, I mean, actually, no. Now that I say that when I was little, now that I think back, I used to, like, this is really funny. I used to, like, take lotions and, like, my mom's spices and stuff and mix them together, like in the sink. I had note, just for fun, I used to just, like, mix stuff, like, random stuff. I don't know why. I just like to do it. It was really funny. And they let me go. And so I think I just was really, like, curious about how things worked. And then when I was in high school, and they, you know, you have to take, like, chemistry as part of the high school curriculum. I was really good at it. Really good. And I really understood it. It was, like, really strange. It was just like one of those things that just made sense to me. And so I was like, oh, this is great. And then when I decided to stay local, I was undeclared at St. Rose. And because I really, I've always really liked all subjects. I've never, I was really good at science, but I liked other things. I liked everything. And I didn't have a clear path, so I was undeclared. And they, because of my, you know, high school background, they put me in a gen chem one class as a, as an undergrad. And so I was like, all right, this is cool. I like this. So I just kept taking, like, okay, gen chem two. Okay, orgo one. Okay. So it kind of just. By the time I was a junior, my academic advisor was like, so what are you gonna do here? And I was like, well, I think at this point I should just declare biochem. I have all of these. I have all the classes. And it was. It just kind of happened, so. Yeah, yeah. And my parents are not scientists or anything like that. Like, it's not like a family thing. It's just me. [00:06:19] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:06:19] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:06:20] Speaker A: That's awesome. [00:06:20] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:06:21] Speaker A: It's funny that you say that, because, like, my parents aren't scientists either. You know, my. Actually, correction, my mom was a chemistry teacher back in Europe, but when they came to America, you know, she. There was the language barrier and everything else, and so she just kind of did little odd jobs and stuff. She did, like, data entry, and she became a seamstress because she is an incredible sewer, you know. [00:06:42] Speaker B: So she. [00:06:43] Speaker A: She did a lot of, like, just blue collar, part time jobs while, you know, we were little kids, and then my dad was a welder, so, you know. So there was no. I agree with you. Same thing. There was just no, like, scientific background necessarily. But kudos to you for chemistry making sense, because it was like, I think I blacked out for organic chemistry. [00:07:08] Speaker B: Oh, organic chemistry. No, no. Oh, no, no. Gen chem, yes or go. No way. Yeah. [00:07:16] Speaker A: Okay. Was it the different. The L and D formations, the right hand rule that also got you, or what was it? [00:07:23] Speaker B: It was all. Yeah. And my teacher was very. How do I. He just. He did not want to teach. Right. He wanted to do his research. He was very much your stereotypical scientist. I would rather not speak to you. I really just want to do what I'm here to do for myself, but I have to speak to you. So it was not a good interaction. I mean, you know, I've had friends who have had really good teachers for Oracle, and they really like it. So it's like. And my academic advisor would say, well, when you go to graduate school, organic chemistry will make sense. And I was like, okay, we'll see. [00:07:59] Speaker A: Did you use it again in graduate school? [00:08:02] Speaker B: No, not at all. Not at all. And I had so many resources, too, right? Like, I had so many friends who could help me, and I just was like, I cannot. This is. It's too abstract. So I'm with you there. [00:08:16] Speaker A: Well, and also, you have a Merc index. You have ways to look these things up. You don't have to memorize how everything is going to react with everything else. And that was the part that drove me crazy. My organic chemistry professor would say things like, if you're stuck on a desert island and you have these reagents and a centrifuge, you know, I was always like, why would I be doing chemistry? Why would I not be trying to get off the island? You know? Like, I don't know. It just. I think I'm with you that my teacher was an adjunct, and, I mean, I've been an adjunct. You know, I respect the heck out of anyone willing to do that job. [00:08:53] Speaker B: Yes. [00:08:53] Speaker A: I just think apparently the regular organic chemistry professor was really good at his job, and he was really good at explaining. And I think this guy had, like, one or two ways to explain it, but I don't think he knew how to deal with hopeless cases like myself. He was like, I don't know what to do with you. I can't explain it any other way. Exactly. [00:09:17] Speaker B: It was so bad, but we made it through. Yeah, okay. [00:09:22] Speaker A: And I agree with you. Biochem, I liked, because it wasn't. It was just a phosphorylation event, and that's that. It wasn't, you know, where do the electrons go and where's it going to bind? And how is the. How is the compound going to change orientation? Like, no, just draw a little p in a circle and move on. And I was like, I can do this. [00:09:39] Speaker B: Yeah. And it was like, this is how, like, the body, like, it was practical. You can, like, your body's doing all of these things to make sure that you can be a person. And so I think that practicality helps, too. Yeah. [00:09:52] Speaker A: I think it's so interesting that you say that, because we're going to talk about nanoscale engineering now. And I I talked to. I. When I. When I talk about myself, I say, like, I was an anatomist and a cell biologist. Like, anything smaller than that, and it starts getting into, like, a gray, fuzzy zone, you know, especially when we get down to, like, molecular level interactions and anything. Anything smaller than that, and I'm like, no, I check out. So you say that, but then you went into nanoscale engineering. So how did that come about? [00:10:23] Speaker B: Well, let me tell you. Let me tell you. I mean, in all honesty, I graduated from college in 2009, and if you can remember, the economy in 2009 was not great. [00:10:35] Speaker A: That's true. [00:10:36] Speaker B: So what am I going to do, right? I was really done with school, not a whole lot, you know, through my genetic college of. I did really well. I was tired. I was really grad school. I wanted a job. I wanted to make money, like my apply for fellowship, and I wanted to live my life, apply for all of these things with the degree that I had money. So I was like, I'll go that route. Took the GRE and did all the things. I applied to a few different schools locally. I was really interested in pharmacology, actually, which is, you know, I kind of wanted to be a pharmacist for a minute, and I worked in a pharmacy as an undergrad, and I realized what they did, and it was a lot of talking to insurance companies, so I was, I was interested in pharmacology. So, you know, I had applied for a few programs. We have a pharmacy school in Albany, and I had applied there, and I'd gotten in there, and I had applied to union, which is another local college, and the school of public health. And I got into all of them. And my dad was like, so this, you've never been here, but this building that we're in, and I'll have to send you a photo. It's a very unique looking building. It's been here since I was younger, and it looks like a ship. My dad said, andrea, it looks like they've got a lot going on in that cool building that's been around. Why don't you, like, apply over there? It was totally out of whim. I was like, okay, I don't know anything about nano. So I applied, and I got in, and they offered me the most money. They were like, yeah, it was great. I was like, oh, I could actually, like, not have to have another job, and I will, like, see what's all going on, right? And it was kind of a, it was a leap of faith, because I do not have a semiconductor background. I do not have that kind of. My brain doesn't really work that way. So it was a leap of faith, and I took it. And luckily, at the time, the professors were reaching out to students in advance. They were like, I really like your background. I think you'd fit really well in my lab. Let's talk eubing, who was also one of Karen's advisors, scooped me up, and she was a chemical engineer by training, but was working on a lot of bioengineering models, needed some more students in that space, so I quickly just joined on with her. So when I, the nano piece kind of happened because I was here, but it was a challenge for me, I will tell you. I mean, they put you in like crystallinity like your first semester, and it's a very different way of thinking, and it's very abstract. And I always, you know, used to say when I would present, and a lot of the engineering students would, you know, have questions or, like, have interesting comments, I would say, well, bio was nano before man even got there. Because, you know, if you think about the body, right, and all that's going on, I mean, at the molecular level, you. You have those interactions happening. And so, you know, semiconductors, I know there's, like, a lot of money, and, you know, they're doing all these great things. But I always used to say, well, we happened first, and we just happened naturally. So. So it just kind of happened organically. And I put thought into the nano part. I was more like, how can I use my biochemistry skills to help make these three dimensional models? And that's. So that started in graduate school. Yeah. [00:14:18] Speaker A: Wow. [00:14:18] Speaker B: There you go. If they had a nano bio degree, that's what I would have, but they didn't have that option. It was nanoscale science or nanoscale engineering. [00:14:25] Speaker A: Wow. [00:14:26] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:14:28] Speaker A: That is incredibly cool. And I think, let me ask you, did your fellow students kind of appreciate your. Your perspective coming at it from the biology side versus coming at it from more of an engineering nanoscale side? Like, were you guys able to mesh pretty well? [00:14:44] Speaker B: We were, for the most part, yeah. And in the lab that I worked in, there was two PiS sharing one lab, so you could only imagine the mess that that lab was. But most of us were working toward, like, on similar things, and a lot of us appreciated biology, or some of them were even engineers who were now training in biotechniques to make these models happen. So it was very interdisciplinary. Of course, you had a few, you know, who were purely, I'm, you know, an engineer. And we didn't really interact as much, but that was more during. We had to do, like, these, like, Saturday seminars, and we had to present our work, and, like, those interactions happened then a little bit more, but it was very interdisciplinary, and I was very lucky in that way to have that kind of, I guess, different experience. [00:15:34] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. Because, you know, I think back to the number of times, you know, and I've been this person, too, to say, this is not my area of expertise. This is not my background. Please catch me up. You know, and I say this talking about insurance companies before, I used to say this all the time when I was in pharma and I had to deal with insurance companies, I would say, okay, explain this to me like, I'm five. Yeah. Why? Or, like, I'm a high school freshman. What are we doing? What is this policy? What is this. What is this legalese paragraph? What does it say? You know, and so I think, too, in cases like yours or in cases like, I'm sure we've both gone to meetings where there's definitely parts that are over our head. We said, look, explain this to me. How does this work? And then usually it's that outside perspective that actually ends up bringing in something new and exciting to this other person's way of thinking, because they. You're able to bring kind of that proverbial 30,000 foot view. [00:16:32] Speaker B: Absolutely. And I think. And I think you would agree, one of the biggest things I learned in graduate school is that it's okay to say, I don't know. Don't try to reinvent the wheel. Right. Just say, I don't know. This. You cannot know everything. So I completely agree with that. [00:16:49] Speaker A: And, you know, that's. That's a reminder to. To the trainees out there. It is. Okay. And, in fact, it is encouraged to say, I don't know. [00:16:57] Speaker B: Yep. [00:16:57] Speaker A: And if you do get a job in industry that will suit you better. If you say, I don't know, I'm going to look it up and I'll get back to you, rather than making something up on the spot that could get you in trouble later. [00:17:09] Speaker B: Exactly. That's exactly right. Yes. [00:17:14] Speaker A: While you're working, I ask everyone this question. So, while you're working on, you know, on your dissertation and you're finishing your masters, what was your. Just forget this. I'm done. Give it all up and run away dream job. [00:17:28] Speaker B: You know, it's funny. When I read that question and I didn't have one specific job, I was so done and so tired. I just wanted a job where I could go to the job and I could go home, and that was it. And I was done. I was like, you know, I had a friend at the time who was, like, working for her parents, like, oil, like, not oil company, but, I don't know, whatever company they had. And, like, she could just go and, like, bring her dog and then, like, do her job work and, like, a home. And I'm like, I was so jealous of that. So there wasn't, like, one thing. I mean, I always. When I was in high school, I was like, oh, it'd be cool to, like, run a hotel and, like, live in the hotel. And, you know, you've seen those movies, I'm sure, but there was never one thing. I just loved so many things, and I did a lot of volunteering when I was a graduate student. I had that opportunity. I had a lot of those opportunities, and I really enjoyed that as well. So, I don't know. Yeah, I wanted a job that was just a nine to five job, and I could go home. Yeah. [00:18:30] Speaker A: You know, it's so funny. It's so funny to think that, like, you craved the mundane. [00:18:35] Speaker B: I did. [00:18:38] Speaker A: I want to be stuck in traffic, and I want to just sit at a desk and then go home. [00:18:43] Speaker B: And go home. Yeah. At that time, that's exactly what I thought I wanted. Yes, yes. [00:18:50] Speaker A: I absolutely love that, because when you think about the number of people who have that job and they're like, oh, my God, you know, I could have gone into science. I could have gone into, you know, we always want what we don't have, but, oh, my gosh, that's hysterical. That's it. 09:00 a.m. Gray box. 05:00 p.m.. Home. [00:19:11] Speaker B: Exactly. Exactly what I wanted. Yep. [00:19:14] Speaker A: I. Okay. I love that. I absolutely love that. So was it that. That made you decide that you wanted to maybe pursue a career in industry rather than academia, or was that something that you just kind of always knew you weren't going to have your own lab? [00:19:29] Speaker B: Yeah, I knew. I I saw my PI. I mean, the thing is, she had a very. It seemed like, flexible life. I mean, she had two. Two boys, actually. So when I had started, she had two young boys, and, like, just seeing how she made it all work, I mean, she was so good to all of us, and then she was clearly, like, a great mom. And. But I also knew that she was up all hours of the night trying to get her grants in or, like, do, you know, whatever she needed to do. And then it was a lot. I mean, I could just see, you know, trying to manage other young students and dealing with that and then also having to teach classes, and then we had the undergraduate program come in, so then there was that layer, too, and I was like, I just can't. I don't think I could. That's for me. You know, I would have loved to have, like, maybe later in life, go teach and, like, purely just teach, not have to run a lab or do any of that. And, you know, in fact, when I was in graduate school, I was offered an adjunct. I was offered to teach a course at St. Rose. My. One of my professors was like, would you come do this? And. And as you can appreciate for the money that it is and for the time that it is, I was like, I cannot do this. You know, but, like, something like that when I'm later would be great. But, yeah, for again, that I want a nine to five. But I knew when I was leaving grad school, you're not going to have that. You're going to. There are going to be things that you're going to have to take care of. And I understood that, and I came around to that, and I definitely was like, you know, interested in industry more, but I was also like, could I do. Should I do an industry postdoc or something like that? But then when I was about to graduate, my PI and another PI were like, hey, we could use some help. You want to hang on and work in our labs? Both labs at the same time. [00:21:18] Speaker A: Oh, wow. [00:21:20] Speaker B: So I had to sort of split my time, but I learned a lot of new techniques, you know, especially working in the other lab. I was exposed to more, you know, bacteria and calcium channels and things like that. And so I was like, why not? I'll do this while I look for, you know, my ideal job, right? And then another PI was like, hey, I also need some help. Yeah. So my. Wow, my original PI is money ran out. So then I split my time between the other guy and this guy and, again, learned a bunch of stuff. He was more of an rna person. So I was like, okay, I'll learn some more stuff, and I'll just keep applying and keep doing things and, you know, and not to make this super sad, but my mom unfortunately got sick before I graduated, and so, yeah, so I was interested to leave Albany, if you can believe it. But when that happened, I just felt like I had to be here. So, you know, I was still applying to jobs that were not super far, but I was really trying to stay as close as I could at the time. [00:22:20] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:22:20] Speaker B: So, yeah. So then Karen was like, hey, I have my lab. I really need somebody else who knows how to do, you know, cell culture and tissue engineering and all the things, you know, I have ferrion, but he's more strictly chemistry, and he can do all of this. But, you know, I really just need another set of hands because I would like to go home for Thanksgiving sometime. You know, she was working like a dog, right? As you can imagine, she needed help, so I was like, why not? I have no kids. I have no house. Like, I, let's do this, and I'll get my industry experience, and then that could get me in the door for another company, right? So, yes. So long answer is yes. I know that I couldn't be. I did not want to be a PI. And then by sticking it out a little bit, here I am. And it's been, it's been seven years, I think. Eight, I don't know. Eight years. Seven or eight years now. Yeah. [00:23:22] Speaker A: Awesome. That is amazing. Yeah. So Karen, meaning doctor Karen Torrehan, who's been one of my previous tests. That's okay. Well, we're just talking amongst friends, and she. So did you guys know each other in grad school or was she just kind of. Oh, yeah. Oh, I didn't know that. [00:23:40] Speaker B: So Karen came to us. Um, I started before Karen, she came to us the summer before she was to start in the fall, and she was so eager, and she was just like, oh, my God, tell me all the things. And I, at the time, was studying for my quals, so I had to, like, also study for my call, my written call, and then, you know, just talk to her about what I was doing in the lab. And I was. She was just so excited. She had so much energy, and, um, you know, and I. I'm a very personable person. And I was like, I'm, like, asking more about her as a person, you know? Hey, like, how are you? Like, tell me about yourself. And, you know, do you have a boyfriend? And she was just like, I am not here for that. I am here for science. I am. I'm here to work. And I was like, okay, that's cool. [00:24:35] Speaker A: So you're a little intense. Yeah. You know? [00:24:38] Speaker B: And she had the right to be that way. You know, she is an all star undergrad. She was excited. She was just really into science. And so I showed her a bunch of stuff that we were doing, and she wound up coming on under my PI, partially my PI and partially another PI. And so we became friends and caught, like, we just had a relationship. Yeah. Yeah, she was great. Yeah, it was. It was wonderful. [00:25:02] Speaker A: You know, I love this because I keep coming back to this idea that the people that I knew in school, the people that you knew in school, I mean, now they are legit big wigs, you know, and you just never know. And one of my favorite story is my friend Sarah Sarkey, who is the vice president of neuroscience and vaccines at Takeda. But we were broke grad students together. We would, you know, sneak food into our bags at the buffet. So that way we could have. We could have dinner that night, you know what I mean? Like, we were so broke. We were so, like, just jaded by everything. And now, like, I just. I look at her. And I'm like, dude, I mean, you know, it blows my mind. And I love to emphasize that, you know, that the people that you work with and the people that you study with and everything, you just never know, right? You don't where they're going to end up, and. And, you know, if you're lucky enough, maybe you'll stay friends forever and you'll work together and, you know, build something incredible together. I love this. [00:26:14] Speaker B: It really. It's two things here. It's. We used to bring Tupperware. I don't know Karen did this, but we. A lot of us grad students used to bring Tupperware where they used to have big parties here, and we would. [00:26:25] Speaker A: Bring Tupperware so that we could take. [00:26:27] Speaker B: The food bag with us. So that's really funny that you said that. And then, you know, yes, it is. In my RPI's dream was for Karen to just hire all of us. You know, we had a very close knit group under RPI, and she was like, that was like, her dream. She just was like, okay, everybody can just work for glauconics at the time. So, yes, it is. It's really sweet, and it's. We really are. We really work well off of each other, which is great. I don't know. Yeah, it's been wonderful. Nothing but good things to say. [00:27:04] Speaker A: There was last story about this, but it's still. Even my husband knows this story. I used to teach neuroscience journal clubs, me and this other PI, and so once a week, we'd get together, and one of the students would pick an article, and we'd all have to read it and then go through and discuss and to kind of bring everybody in. I would always have to order, and thankfully, the department would pay for it, but I would always get two football sized pizzas. That's what they were called. So they were like, you know, huge, huge pizzas. And, like, a two liter of coke or sprite or something, you know, and bring them in. And so it was always, like, one giant, like, pepperoni or sausage, and then one, like, chicken, half cheese, half veggie, and, you know, they go around, and the kids would eat and everything. And then at the end, this kid, and God help him, he's an mD PhD now, and if you're out there, Vince, I still remember you. Vince would take all of the leftover pizza. I mean, like, he'd pile it on like. Like a dagwood sandwich. It was this huge pile of pizza, and. And he'd take it all home with him. I would say to him, and I would say to him, like, vince, come on, dude, like, have a little shame again. Come on. You know, like, why don't you just bring that back upstairs where all the labs are and share it with everybody? And he was like, well, no, I ask, and no one else wants it. And, you know, I share some with the homeless guy outside my apartment, you know? And I'm sure he did. He was a very sweet kid, you know, but it always. Every time I would see him, like, walk away with a stack of pizza slices, all I could think of was like, one day that kid's gonna do something incredible, and I'm gonna be able to tell the story about how he's gonna cure some kind of a brain tumor, and I'm gonna tell the story about how he used to steal all the free pizza from neuroscience journal club because he was so broke. You know, that's just. That's the nature of the beast. [00:29:06] Speaker B: I love that. And it is the nature of the beast. We're all just trying to survive, you know, back to the desert island question. We're more interested in surviving. [00:29:14] Speaker A: Okay, I know. I know. Exactly. Exactly. So then what do you say to people? So going back to. Going back to Albany, obviously. So you grew up in this area where obviously there was a lot of, you know, technical advancements and sounds like there's a lot of really good universities and opportunities there. You know, from talking to Karen, she said, you know, she. She thankfully didn't really have much of a problem extracting her ip from the university and starting her company, you know, so it sounds like it was this incredibly supportive environment. But even someone like me, who grew up in Chicago, where there's like, six incredible research universities, right? We were always told not to geographically restrict ourselves, you know? And at the time. I mean, at the time, I resented it completely because, like you, you know, I kind of wanted to stay closer to home. I was dating my high school sweetheart. I had, you know, my whole family was in the Chicagoland area. I had no interest in leaving. But, you know, everybody told me, don't geographically restrict yourself. And in retrospect, I can see what they mean because it's not just about going to another lab and learning new techniques. It's about, like, gaining some independence and other world experiences and, you know, completely being on your own and things like that. But you are obviously this fantastic success story of someone who never, you know, who never really left. And so I guess, like, you know, what would be your counterpoint to that? If someone says, don't. Don't geographically restrict yourself. What would you say? [00:30:46] Speaker B: I understand it. And they told me that, too. Trust me, they told me that, too. And I just was like, well, I hear you, and maybe that will happen for me, but for now, this feels right, and I am gonna see where this goes. Like, that's kind of how it's always been. I'm just gonna see where this goes. Um, you know, I also was dating my high school sweetheart, and we're. We have two kids now, so, um, you know, yours worked out, which I know is rare. So I'm not, like, trying to be the poster child for that either. But, um, yeah. And I also made, I think that it's important. I think you should consider everything, but I also think you have to follow what makes sense for you and what makes sense for what you're interested in. Right. Like, I was really interested in the things that I was doing here, and I was like, well, I don't. I don't want to leave. I don't want to give abandon these things that I'm working on here. And I kind of just followed my gut, if that makes any sense to you. And I made sure I was out there in conferences, and also, I was on my own. I wasn't, like, living with my parents. You know, I was on my own. Even as an undergrad, I moved out and I was on my own. So I had a lot of independence. So I understand it. I think it is, you know, maybe someday I will relocate, but for me, and you just have to follow your gut and trust what you're interested in and trust the process and that you're going to wind up where you need to be, that's really nothing magical about, you know, about it. [00:32:23] Speaker A: Yeah, I agree with that. I completely agree with that. So for people who are interested in pursuing bench careers after, you know, maybe after they're done with their PhD, you mentioned, you know, working for a few different people at the same time and learning all of these different techniques. Do you think that helped you? [00:32:44] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. [00:32:44] Speaker A: In what you do now and then, like, I guess my question would be for those people who are interested in continuing on at the bench, but just in an industry perspective, what would you recommend? Would you recommend that they do that or what would you recommend that they do to kind of help prepare them for that type of career path? [00:33:00] Speaker B: Absolutely. And I want to. I want to clarify, so I did start more at the bench, purely. Now I'm more of in a supervisory position where I focus more on planning out you know, projects and experiences experiment. And I. And I do step in where I need to. I do do a lot of microscopy because that's, you know, one of my specialties. But it was very important for me to have those other lab experiences and to learn those other techniques. I think that was really great, I would say, and this is something I wish I had done as a graduate student. I wish I had done more internships because I think those are really important for you to pick up on these new skills or what have you, you know? And obviously, as a grad student, you're focused on getting your work done in the summer. I mean, you don't have the summer off. And I also was, like, trying to make money, you know, with other jobs. But I think it's really. It would have been really great if I could have gone to an industry internship or some other internship. So I would say internships and getting as much experience in other labs as you can, whether. Even if that's like a shadowing experience, whatever you can do. Yeah. [00:34:09] Speaker A: To gain these other perspectives and learn some of these other techniques. [00:34:12] Speaker B: Yep, absolutely. Wow. [00:34:15] Speaker A: Okay. That. That's really good. That's really good to know because I think. I don't even think I ever considered doing an internship in school. It was more. I know, let's. Let's get this done. [00:34:27] Speaker B: Exactly. And I had some friends who were doing that. They would do, like, these internships and. And try to make it all work, you know? And even as an undergrad, you know, if you're at that level. Right. Because maybe some people are at that level. Just get out there as much as you can. It's really scary, but it's really important. And you'll also meet a lot of great people. [00:34:49] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely. So is that what you look for in, like, resumes and people that you interview for positions at Humanix? So what is it that you look for in as you're going through applicants, and how can someone stand out to you? [00:35:04] Speaker B: Absolutely. It's funny that you say that, you know, I don't know if I necessarily. I think that's important. That's one of the things I look for. Yes. The first thing I'm looking for is their relevant experience to what we're doing. Right. So, you know, various bio analyses, cell culture techniques, things like that, and how they can explain what they've done to me effectively, because that's really important. My advisor had always pushed, if you can't explain what you're doing in an elevator pitch, then you don't know what you're doing. It's really important. So I'm looking for that relevant experience. I'm looking for them to be able to explain that to me effectively. I'm also looking for other experience that we don't have, because, again, I was brought up in this interdisciplinary way, and sometimes, as we mentioned earlier, it's that other field or other area of expertise that can kind of bring a lot to the table. I think that adds value. So I'm also looking for, okay, what other experience do you have? And how could that benefit humanix, particularly in developing new models. Right. Especially through this alternative methods initiative, and then, so with those two things, and then the communication is really important. But also, I'm looking for somebody who can not only work with a team, but not on a team, but with a team. Right. And their communication skills come in there, too. Right. You know, you, again, you need to be able to say, I don't know. You need to be able to ask questions and not be afraid. There's no room for shrinking violence here. And I think that kind of would go for a lot of industry. Right. Unless you're in, like, a trainee type of position. I'm also trying to look for people. [00:36:51] Speaker A: Who. [00:36:54] Speaker B: Are a little bit well rounded, you know what I mean? Like, tell me about your interests or tell me about things that, like you asked, you know, what was your, like, job that you would have run away from or run away for? Yeah, things like that. And then something that's very important to working in industry is particularly, you know, in a startup environment, is flexibility. You know, we have an ever changing dynamic, ever changing environment. You know, we're at the mercy of things that are alive, and we have to be able to pivot. We have to be able to pivot and move on. And, you know, we can't get stuck on something. So I'm looking for that. I'm looking for flexibility. Sometimes we have to come in at night and on the weekends, like, so I think that's really important. I'm lucky enough to be a part of a great, dynamic team here. We all add different pieces to the puzzle. And so, yeah, it's a lot of different things that we're looking for, but I think the internships and other experiences absolutely would help. [00:38:00] Speaker A: I love how you said you have to be able to explain what you do. And I love this elevator pitch idea, because one of the things that my mentor used to tell me when he would interview students for the program is he would ask them about some of the manuscripts that they were listed on. He would look through their cv and either pick a manuscript or pick an abstract, and he would say, all right, what was. What did you do on that paper? Tell me what that paper was about. Tell me and tell me what you did. And he kind of did that in a way, as a little bit of a gotcha because there are those, I don't know if they're still called, like, paper farms or something, but like those, those huge labs where everyone's put on all the papers and, you know. [00:38:45] Speaker B: Yep. [00:38:46] Speaker A: Maybe. Maybe you just reviewed it and, or maybe you did some very small component of it and you're listed on the paper, which is, you know, advantageous. It grows your cv exponentially. But that being said, if someone ever asks you what was that paper about or what essay did you do, you know, you have to be able to tell them. You know, we were always taught. We were always taught if it's on your slide, you are responsible for knowing it. So, you know, even in your background slides, there's no throwaway bullet points. Someone could come back and ask you about that bullet point. You better be able to say at least something, you know, and I love this idea because I'm sure you guys aren't necessarily doing it as a gotcha, but it's more as a. [00:39:31] Speaker B: Right. [00:39:32] Speaker A: What's your comprehension of immunohistochemistry? What's your comprehension of this model that you were building? Why were you building this model? Why does that cell type important to that disease state or whatever it is? I think that's wonderful. [00:39:47] Speaker B: Absolutely. Yeah, it is. And, you know, I really like that you said that. That's a really, actually, I kind of like what he used to do. That's a really interesting technique. I mean, and it makes perfect sense. And, you know, and in my experience, I mean, probably because I've been part of, like, smaller labs and things, it's like, unless you've done something to contribute to that paper, like, you are not on it, so it's very important. Yeah. [00:40:12] Speaker A: And I think you would only look for those who obviously, as an undergrad, were on like, a large number of papers, you know, and say, really? All right, let's. [00:40:22] Speaker B: Is this what you're doing here? [00:40:24] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. I mean, yeah, it's real and that it's black and white. But I mean, what. What exactly did you do here? You know, and how. And I like the idea of pivoting as well because, you know, I worked at a, I worked at a startup. I worked at a company that had very startup mentality. And yeah you're, you're absolutely right. And I think lab people actually are better at this. Yeah, I'm just gonna go out and say I think lab people are better at this than the mundane nine to five people because even now in the job that I do I will still answer emails at 930 at night. It does not faze me. You know, it is what it is. But the nine to five people and in fact it's funny, someone said we're not supposed to work on weekends and I'm like, I mean I appreciate that but there's an email here and I'm going to answer it now. You know what I mean? So I think lab people are better at understanding that sometimes the -80 breaks down on Saturday night and you've got to abandon your plans and go take care of it or your twelve hour time point just happens to be at, you know at midnight. So you go, you know, it's just what you do, so. [00:41:38] Speaker B: Exactly, exactly actually. [00:41:41] Speaker A: So it's good for students to know that that doesn't necessarily end when you're in grad school. You know, when you finish grad school it doesn't necessarily, you might still have those late nights, you may still work on weekends, it'll still still happen. [00:41:55] Speaker B: It will. And it may not be as often, right? It may not be, it's not super frequent. You know, you kind of just ebb and flow as things go. But, but yeah, I mean if you're working with cells in particular and experiments you have to be at the mercy of what that is if you want good science. [00:42:13] Speaker A: And the experiment that you did for the startup company I used to work at, you were checking in on Christmas Eve, right? You were, you were checking on those cells. It was during Christmas break I remember. [00:42:25] Speaker B: Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Absolutely, absolutely. And one of the benefits of me being from here is that I'm here usually so, and I have a very short commute to this facility. So it really all worked out. [00:42:39] Speaker A: Yeah, right, perfect. So I guess, yeah, let's, let's talk about what a typical week is like, you know, so we're just talking about being flexible and everything. But like I guess if you had to sum up like a typical week as someone who supervises bench scientists, what, what does that look like? [00:43:00] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean I think what would be most beneficial is I'll probably walk you through the bulk part of my job as you know, you know I wear many hats here, but the no days the same. Right. First off, which is great, I kind of like that now, I wanted mundane, but I like. So the main component of my job is client services and experimental planning. And so say we get a statement of work that's been signed. I take the statement of work, I then plan it all out, soup to nuts. And we have a task manager that we use. That's wonderful. So once I have planned it and I talk with the other scientists and our technical team, again, constant communication, that's a theme that you're going to see throughout this. I upload it to our task manager and make sure everything is detailed and pristine, because that has all of our projects. They're the ones doing a lot of the hands on work. But I'm in there looking at the timeline, looking as they should. [00:44:04] Speaker A: This is what we're. [00:44:05] Speaker B: Everything growing, needs to grow. If it's not, I then have to pivot from that point on, recording. Do they need more time? Is this not. This particular vial is not working. We need to rework this. So again, dynamic environment. So I'm in the lab, I'm looking at that. I'm also, depending on what the endpoint is, I'll come on to do some assays. A lot of confocal microscopy. I really enjoy that. And then we wrap everything up, do analysis, and then have the meeting with the client. And I really like having those face to face meetings with the client because, you know, I'm a people person. I do like talking to people. And we really like to think of our clients more as partners and collaborators, and building relationships with them is important to me and really understanding what it is that their objective is. So, you know, I do a lot of that. And then aside from my priorities, you know, in the client space, I am also involved in internal work that we have going on. So. And I kind of pinch it wherever I'm needed, whether that be, you know, planning, you know, calculations, microscopy assays, whatever. The thing is, I'm in that as well. So again, you can see my days are never the same. But again, big portion is really client services and constantly being in communication with the technical team. And we work hand in hand together to make sure things are running as they need to run. Right? Yeah. And that's important. I mean, as we talk about, you know, building new models at Humanix, you know, we have to make sure that we have all of our ducks in a row and all of our processes are stamped in, if that makes sense. Yeah, so it's. [00:46:12] Speaker A: You almost sound like an unofficial project manager. [00:46:14] Speaker B: Yeah, sort of. [00:46:16] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. [00:46:18] Speaker B: Yes. [00:46:19] Speaker A: Because you're talking about communicating with stakeholders. You're talking about, you know, getting everyone on board and practically getting signatures. This is how it's going to go. And monitoring throughout and checking in. And, you know, I like the, so, you know, from our, from our experience, I mean, I loved the communication because as a scientist, it is hard to give something up and say, I want you to do this, and I trust in, you know, the models that you have and I trust in your abilities. This is my idea. I'm giving it to you. And it's a little difficult to do. And so to have a company that will constantly come back and you would email me. Cynthia, here's the cells look like today they're not ready. [00:47:04] Speaker B: Okay. [00:47:04] Speaker A: You know, and at least check that off your list. And you say, okay, they're there, they look good. And there's just something reassuring from the client perspective to say, like, no, they're, they're still thinking about us. They are genuinely treating us like partners, you know, and it was always incredibly reassuring and very, very helpful. [00:47:24] Speaker B: Oh, I'm so glad. I'm so glad to hear that. That's the goal, right? I mean, and that's the thing. It's more, again, it's just trying to stay on top of everything and make sure that people understand, you know, you're doing the work that you set out to do. That has been written and, you know, meticulously looked over. Another part of my job I forgot to mention is, you know, just managing the lab as a whole. So just making sure every things are running as they need to run. Right. I mean, you know, we have, and my technical team helps with that as well, but just making sure that we're doing what we need to do. I mean, as graduate students, you have checks and balances. You know, you have usually an academic support staff who's making sure that things are doing what they need to do. As a company, you need to be responsible for all of the things. So whether that be CO2 tanks, liquid nitrogen, making sure the incubators are doing what they need to do, because sometimes they also have a mind of their own, too. So. And we all do. A little bit of this is making sure that we're good, everything looks great. And, yeah, I love that. [00:48:32] Speaker A: Like, you know, yeah, even, even the CEO's rolling up her sleeves and, you know, plugging in a new CO2 tank or moving things from one freezer to another, you know, that goes along with that. Pivoting like. [00:48:45] Speaker B: Absolutely. And doing whatever you need to do that's best for the company and best for us, you know, moving forward. And. [00:48:52] Speaker A: Yeah, so one of the things that I remember hearing as I was talking about going into industry and thinking about going into industry as a postdoc is I was cautioned that none of my ideas would ever really be mine, you know? [00:49:07] Speaker B: Okay. [00:49:09] Speaker A: Like, kind of like what you're saying, you know, you. You work with the client, and, you know, certainly at humanix, there's more of a back and forth, but some other companies do just tell us what you want us to do. We'll get it all in writing. We can tell you what's feasible and what's not. You know, and maybe we can, you know, maybe they'll, they'll contribute a little bit into the experimental design and particularly with in vivo studies. You know, if you say, I want checks at all these time points, and then the price tag comes back astronomical, then, okay, we cut back on a few of those, and usually it's the budget that'll dictate. Sure. But there's always this idea. And again, I was cautioned against this, you know, none of the ideas that you pursue are going to be yours anymore. And they made it sound like, isn't that going to be sad? You know, you're not, you know, you're working on someone else's ideas, and if it doesn't work, then that's that, you know? Or if it does work, then you have to hand it back to them, and that's that. And so, I guess, do you feel. I mean, I get the impression that you don't feel that way, but how would you respond to somebody who had that concern? [00:50:15] Speaker B: Yeah. And I, you know what? That was never said to me. That was never something I've ever thought about or had an issue with because it's been so dynamic and, like, just, you know, we're constantly talking, okay, let's do this. That's a good idea. That's a good idea. But, like, a big idea. Yeah, that's, that's never something that's come up. And we, you know, we still will apply for grants and when, especially while we're building new things. And, you know, whoever, if that person is their idea, then, you know, they're going to be the PI on the grant. Like, it's. Yeah, we don't have that concern, actually. Yeah. [00:50:51] Speaker A: That's nice. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, in retrospect, I can understand, you know, that you're gonna go whichever way the company's going, you know, so. And I've certainly seen that, you know, in my own experience, it never bothered me as much as, you know, maybe others thought that it might, but. But I can see if you are a person who likes to see, as you say, something grow from, from soup to nuts. You want to follow this project from start to finish. I mean, of course, if it's a big question, there's never really a finish. You know, you, you never have, you never have an end. You know, you're. An experiment is going to open up more questions and maybe answer one little aspect of it, but it's just, it never really ends. But, you know, it was just an interesting perspective to me to have someone say, well, you know, but you don't have ownership of your, of your stuff. [00:51:39] Speaker B: And, you know, gosh, yeah, that's very sad. [00:51:43] Speaker A: I know, right. Of fun. So tell us, I guess, you know, Karen gave us an overview of humanix, but, yeah, let's have you do that. And also let's talk about, let's talk about the models, you know, because, you guys, it's all, it's all in vitro cell culture models. And remind me, it's like 3d culture and co culture. And so that takes the in vivo aspect out of it. And it allows companies to test their compounds in human cells rather than relying on, like, mouse models, rat models, etcetera. Yes, please. [00:52:20] Speaker B: Absolutely. And, you know, and I'll just rewind a little bit even further. And, you know, when we were graduate students, the PI that we were working under, that was one of her, you know, big things was trying to, we're trying to move away from animal, like, this is not necessarily working for everything. Right? It doesn't work for everything, and it costs a lot of money, and there's all this, you know, and it's inhumane and things like that. And so when I was working on as a graduate student, it was very similar, you know, were you trying to make this model of brown fat cell? You know, it was very exciting. And Karen was working on similar things as well. And so really, you know, the genesis of the company was 95% or 90% is failing in the clinic for, you know, glaucoma. Okay, we need a better model. Right? That was really the genesis. And you've heard that story a few times now. And then it sort of has transformed into, okay, well, we can culture an effective 3d trabecular meshwork, schlem canal co culture, and we've shown that we can disease the tissue and we can simulate a glaucoma like state, and we can treat it with various compounds. And we have endpoints that we can see. We can look at pressure changes and things like that. What else? How. Wait a minute. We can use this for some other things as well, because there are other disease states that are fibrotic, and there are other disease states that, you know, we could easily. We could get the cells, right? They make the cells. We could just buy them and. And can we. Wait a minute. We could do this. So it's really been that sort of this, like, do they really need, you know, a person or an animal for another particular disease state? And, you know, initially, when we were first going to conferences, a lot of people were like, okay, this is great. This is the front of the eye. What about the back? What about the back of the eye? Because there's a lot of problems back there, and it's very complicated. So what about that? And we just kept hearing over and over, what about the back of the eye? What about the back of the eye? And it's funny, because I have a friend who, you know, had a chicken pox on her optic nerve. So she's always said, can you get me? I can't see. She can't see out of the eye. Yeah. So she's like, yeah, I know my friend since she was a kid. She cannot see out of her left eye. So you have to be mindful of which side you're on. It's a whole thing. And. And she's like, are you? Yeah, I know. Very probably super rare. Yeah. And so what. Hey, are you guys doing anything, you know, for. Could you help me? Can you help my optic nerve? That was really the push for us to start looking into the back of the eye. Right. Which, as you know, is very complicated. There's so many moving parts there, and. [00:55:02] Speaker A: To say the least, so that Andrea, I think, is probably a bioengineer's dream. The ultra structure of the retina, probably. [00:55:13] Speaker B: Absolutely. Yeah. A lot of interdisciplinary things at work there, for sure. [00:55:19] Speaker A: Absolutely. [00:55:20] Speaker B: Yeah. And so that's kind of how we moved in that. Into that space, you know, can we take what we know from the front of the eye? How can we apply it to the back? And, you know, there's been a lot of really a lot of learning and a lot of, you know, growing with that. And then in terms of other models, you know, we've got some preliminary things happening with some other models. I'm not sure what I can and cannot say here, but it's really just about using what we know and how can we apply it. And, you know, I've been to some conferences is particularly like, 3d, you know, tissue or 3d technology summits. And you've got a lot of different camps there, right? You've got the camps of. Well, you need a whole person. For toxicology. You need a whole person. Sure. Okay. Understood. Beyond the tox part, you know, in terms of, like, just studying the actual tissue and studying what works and mechanism of action, because a lot of times, I'm sure you knew this as an MSL. Drugs work. How do they work? Right, exactly. So that's really, like, an important piece for us. I mean, we can really come in there and help. So. And then you've got other camps that are like, well, it's never going to be as good as the whole organ. You need the whole organ and not the whole person, but you just need that organ. And as long as you can get enough of those tissues, which. Who can, right? You know, so I think that we kind of realize what we're good at, and we kind of just feel like we fit and we can fit, particularly with the alternative methods, because a lot of times people have come to us before they've gone into the clinic, you know, hey, we have this idea, does this thing work or not? Can you just give us some information? But we also have had people come back, hey, we've got this approved drug. It works. We don't know how it works. Can you help us with that? So, I know that's kind of a long answer, but I really think that it's been a very organic process, and it's been us using our talents to the best of our ability. And again, just working as a team and coming up with an interdisciplinary approach. [00:57:28] Speaker A: And I still see your name on papers and posters, and you're still out there doing. Doing the conference circuits and getting published. So that's always exciting, too. [00:57:38] Speaker B: It is. It is always exciting. And I'm so happy to be a part of all of that as well. I think that's really important. Again, keeping yourself well rounded in that way. [00:57:47] Speaker A: Absolutely. And, you know, I. And I agree that especially in, you know, when you're using animal models, you're using mice, you're using rats. You know, those. Those tissues are small in a human, they're even smaller in rats and mice. So trying to isolate tissues and see what's been up regulated or down regulated in a particular, either with your treatment of choice or with a vehicle. You know, I remember hearing Karen talk about the model that she built of the outflow pathway, and just thinking, this is going to change the game, because it really, not only does it mimic the in vivo state, and you can see the same results in humans and actual human patients as you see in the 3d culture models. It was very, very exciting. And I think now, especially with 3d printing and talking about 3d printing, human heart valves and all kinds of other really neat things, I think we are starting to move past nothing's ever going to compare to having an actual, like you say, for tox, for pharmacokinetics, for everything else. You still need live animals. But it does seem like, especially in the preclinical phase, way to save money, way to save time. This just is a much better, um, approach. And it's definitely, definitely cheaper and less high maintenance and less smelly, I would imagine. A lot less smelly. [00:59:20] Speaker B: Absolutely. Exactly right. [00:59:26] Speaker A: So I guess for our last few minutes, I want to talk to you. We were talking before you mentioned your volunteer work and how much you enjoyed volunteering. I saw on your LinkedIn profile you did a lot of stem education for young people. And one of the things, so there's a reason why bench to boardroom is, you know, hosted by women. And so far all of my guests have been women. And humanix, obviously, is this, you know, kick ass company run by women, you know, and I love that for you guys, mainly because I just, I didn't want to hear another podcast with another man talking about his ascension from academics to industry, because that story has been told six ways to solve Sunday. And there is, there are considerations for us then that are completely different from them, you know, so when you think about. So it's. I was interested in that, how stem education was very important to you. And so are you still volunteering and doing things like that now, or how do you encourage young people to pursue careers and stem, particularly young women? [01:00:38] Speaker B: You know, I don't get to do as much of that now, unfortunately, I am always open to it. And so sometimes we'll get opportunities to go speak to high schools or try to maybe even try to bring them here, see what we're actually doing. So we do try to do that as much as we can. And I think it's really important, too. And it's interesting because kids inherently, mostly they do science all, but they're like citizen scientists. It's when they get to school and the way that it's taught and the way that it's kind of explained because not every kid learns the same, so they kind of start to lose it a little bit. And so what we used to do when I was a graduate student is we would have these after school programs and we would go in and mostly inner city and just do fun, do science with them, because it. At the end of it, like, they realize they're doing science without even, like, knowing. I don't know. So, you know, a lot of times it was things like we would get chicken thighs from the grocery store or, like, a whole chicken leg and, like, dissect the chicken leg because you can. And one kid was, like, forgot that he was at school, you know? So it's like, I feel like, you know, we are born with this inherent interests, and we're interested in all the things, and then it kind of gets dampered down. But for women in particular, absolutely. I mean, you know, I remember being one of the only girls in my class at grad school, and being like, oh, my God. Like, yeah. And I remember hearing the other, the boys be like, oh, I haven't seen a girl in a while in class. And it's like, okay, well, you know, I just try to encourage all young people, but especially girls, like, just, you know, pursue your interests. Don't be afraid, like, what anybody's thinking about you. You know, just be interested in what you're interested in and just trying to expose them to more things. And I feel like the more that they see and the more they see examples, the more they are likely to pursue. And then some of the graduate students that I've spoken with over the last few years, they're all women, and it's wonderful. [01:02:42] Speaker A: That's awesome. Yeah. And I'll go back to what you said about the leap of faith going into this nanoscale engineering program. I love that because, especially. Especially for women, I think there's so much paralysis by analysis and so much that we struggle with in terms of imposter syndrome. And, I mean, I tell the story all the time. I will never go, even. Even though I love lifting weights, but if I go into the gym, I will never go to, like, the testosterone infused corner of the gym with the grunting men, like, nope, it's like a force field. I will not penetrate that force field. I'll go to where, like, they have the multicolored weights, and I'll just do it there because it seems like a much more open and welcoming environment. And I feel like, in a lot of ways, a lot of these fields are still stuck in that very masculine environment, and it can feel like a force field to try to puncture through and make it work. And so I love hearing stories like yours where you say, I mean, I took a chance. This was a really cool spaceship looking building. And, you know, I knew that I loved this, and then I learned the rest. [01:04:03] Speaker B: Yep. [01:04:04] Speaker A: And that's phenomenal. [01:04:07] Speaker B: Thanks, Cynthia. Thanks. [01:04:10] Speaker A: So, I mean, we could leave it there. What other words of encouragement would you have? How can people find you on LinkedIn, or how can they find humanix? [01:04:20] Speaker B: Oh, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. So you can find humanix on LinkedIn. I am also on LinkedIn. I'm on Instagram. I'm not sure if that's helpful. I just want people to realize you don't have to be pigeonholed. And I'm sure we've heard this same speech a million times, but just kind of follow your path. I mean, I'm a planner, actually. I do love planning, but the way that I've gotten to where I've gotten is because I didn't plan. I just kind of kept following these, like, I would say, like little, like breadcrumbs, and I just kept going after the breadcrumbs. And I am where I am now, and I'm just kind of seeing how things go and don't get so caught up on, like, well, hey, like the what ifs and, oh, I have to do x, y, and z, you know, have goals, but also be flexible with yourself as a person because you will change and you will evolve. [01:05:13] Speaker A: I love that. That is absolutely right. And scientists especially, we do love to plan. [01:05:19] Speaker B: We do. And that's the thing. And we really love to plan. And we also have to learn to let go at times, too. And humanix has been a great environment for me because we have a really great, again, I keep using the word dynamic. I don't know what other word to use. It's just a really great environment and a very flexible environment, everybody working together. So I'm very fortunate to have led my, my trail of breadcrumbs have led me here. So, yeah. [01:05:50] Speaker A: This has been, this has been wonderful. Thank you, doctor Andrea Unser, for joining us today, and it was wonderful to see you. [01:05:57] Speaker B: Always good to see you, Cynthia. Please don't be a stranger. [01:06:00] Speaker A: Absolutely. [01:06:01] Speaker B: Thank you very much for having me. Take care. [01:06:07] Speaker A: I want to thank doctor Andrea Unser once again for joining me today. It was an absolute delight to talk to her. Remember, you can find humanix biosciences that's spelled h u m o n I x biosciences on LinkedIn. You can find andrea on LinkedIn. And of course, contact me on LinkedIn or on Instagram with any questions or ideas you have for future episodes. Otherwise, happy Women's history month, everyone.