Episode Transcript
[00:00:01] Speaker A: Welcome to today's episode of The Bench to Forever podcast. I am your host, Cynthia Steele, and today's guest is Dr. Karen Torrahan, who is the chief scientific officer and founder of Humanix Biosciences. Humanix originally started as a company called Glauconics because their original goal was focused primarily on tissues related to Glauco OMA that, as you'll hear, they have since expanded their offerings to include other tissues in the body. And it's a really fascinating platform on which to start a company. So you'll hear my conversation with Karen about that for a minute. Karen also has a PhD in tissue engineering and nanotechnology. Personally, anything that begins with the word nano I find to be very impressive. And she talks a lot about the importance of mentorship during her PhD. Interestingly, Karen had a different experience than my previous guests in that she had very supportive mentors and she had very supportive female mentors in particular. And so she talks a little bit about how that has changed her approach to leadership and how she guides her teams. Also importantly, I've been told that there's a number of concerns or questions from those of you out there, maybe in a similar predicament about how one can extract their intellectual property or their IP from their university so that they can start their own company as well. So I specifically asked Karen about that, and you'll hear that as well.
Little note towards the end, we do start encountering some technical difficulties with regards to the sound quality. We are still a little baby seedling of a podcast. We're still learning and we're still adapting. So please continue to have patience with us as we encounter these little changes and things that need to be done and try to make them better. So, anyway, without further ado, dr. Karen Torhan.
Okay. Yeah, we're recording. Okay, awesome.
Dr. Karen Torhan. Welcome to the Bench to Boardroom podcast.
[00:02:19] Speaker B: Thank you, Cynthia, for having me. This is great. I mean, we haven't talked in a while, so this is a great opportunity also for me to chat with you. So I'm happy to be here. Thank you for inviting me and thinking of me.
[00:02:30] Speaker A: Of course. I think your story is incredibly inspirational, and I agree. The people I've interviewed so far, we've all said we need to do this more often. We don't talk nearly enough socially, and particularly about things related to industry and related to career. And so this is really wonderful to just get a chance to catch up with you as well.
[00:02:53] Speaker B: Yeah, and I commend you for doing this. I mean, this type of podcast, I think it's going to be very helpful for a lot of people. And like you said, it's very unique. I think there is a niche, but it's only growing right. Of people that are deciding are going through the path of academia, but yet they have this pivot, and they end up into industry, or they're even curious about it. So I'm really excited that you're doing so. Thank you for having me here, I guess.
[00:03:23] Speaker A: Of course. So why don't you introduce yourself to the audience?
[00:03:26] Speaker B: Yeah, sure. I'm Karen Torahan. And what else would you like me to say about you? I can give you a bit of an intro.
Well, I did my doctorate degree in nanoscale engineering and focusing on tissue engineering in the University at Albany and the State University of New York in Albany. And before that I worked really heavily in cancer research. So actually I thought I was going to get my PhD in cancer research and I was really excited about that. But you know, life has a different sometimes puts you in different paths. And I ended up doing a lot of eye research, which I'm really grateful.
It was a great opportunity for me and I've learned so much.
But still in the back of, I guess, my little toolbox. I have a lot of cancer research background as well.
And my degree actually was in physics and chemistry and yeah, I ended up doing a lot of tissue engineering and founding a company really for the love of science. I guess I just followed the science and it led me to starting a company. So I think that's a little bit about myself. Hopefully that was a good intro.
[00:04:48] Speaker A: Yes, definitely.
I love how you said that because we talk about following the science all the time, right?
We used to call it the slaying of a beautiful hypothesis with an ugly truth. I mean, if the data is telling you something, you just have to be open minded enough to listen to it and follow the science. I love that.
So then where were you doing cancer research? Was that also at SUNY Albany?
[00:05:17] Speaker B: Yes. So actually, first of all, I didn't think I was going to do I didn't even know what a PhD was. Right. I didn't know what that meant in the science field. I came know my family it's mostly women, right. From Peru. And my family was very like you have to either be a doctor, a lawyer, or an accountant. Right. Because those are the only, I feel like the three main. So I never heard of being no pressure or any of that. And when I went to undergraduate, I was fortunate enough to get into an internship right off my freshman year. Right.
And I got paired up with a professor who happened to be an expert in the field. And he was very well respected. He was a kol. He actually had started a company. He had several patents and drugs that had been already in the market and they were developing new drugs for cancer.
I ended up working with them in this lab and at the end of it, of course, all the interns that were there, they ended up leaving, but they ended up asking me if I would like to stay and write papers and work with them. So that was actually where my first I guess, now that I think back, my first intro into not only science, but also the business side, because I was able to see how to do research for the sake of not only research, but bringing it out of the lab, right. Become creating a product and getting IP around it and all this. So actually it was there where I started and then decided, okay, well, let's give this PhD a try. I worked in that lab for about five years or so, so even after I graduated, even aside doing my undergraduate, I was working there as a part time, so it was actually a lot of and the person who ran the lab, he was a great, great mentor of mine. I remember him telling me, no matter what you do, just try to be the best at it, no matter what it is.
And I was like, oh, okay. He's like, I'm serious, because even if you want to be a clown, go be a clown, but be the best clown you want to be, and then the best one, and then you're going to get old. It's just going to be so much that's really what's going to give you, I guess, the push to continue, and it's really going to give you that what am I the word? I'm thinking, really, it's just going to be so much more rewarding when you're trying to at whatever it is. So I remember always thinking of that, and it still sticks to me up to this date. So that's how everything started. And I worked with this lab not just as an undergraduate researcher, but also as a technician, as a researcher there even, and it was great. And there I decided, you know what, I want to get my PhD.
[00:08:30] Speaker A: That's amazing. So a couple of things I want to dig into there. So the first one being that you went to undergrad and graduate school at the same university. And as you know, typically people say you want to go to different colleges and different universities, but clearly you were working with the right person, and you guys gelled really well, and so is his mentorship really the reason why you decided to stay?
[00:08:59] Speaker B: Absolutely, it really was.
I thought about applying to other places. And at that point, when you look at nanotechnology for Biotech, I guess Albany, and especially SUNY Albany, the College of Nanoscale Science and Engineering was leading the way and they were getting, I mean, they still are getting a lot of money to really start the College of Nanoscale Science and Engineering.
Large companies, like a lot of large semiconductor companies are there, and it just felt like it was the right place to be. Even though I did wanted to leave. I heard everybody telling you, you should leave for grad school, and you should try to pick another school that's not a state school, but I decided to stay for that reason. And also I had this mentor, and we talked about if I stayed, perhaps I could get my PhD with this person. But it didn't work out that way. But I'm grateful because I ended up working in the eyesight and I got to learn a lot.
That's my staying.
We joke around with some of my friends, like they call me a SUNY girl because I went to undergraduate here and I went to graduate school here. And now we have a company here that it's within the know, Sunni campus is its own space. We have our own area, but it's still fairly close to the Sunni area. So it's really funny.
[00:10:37] Speaker A: That's awesome.
We're going to talk in a little bit more about your company in a bit. But I really love this idea because my previous guests all had mentors who were not at all enthusiastic about their transition to industry. And maybe we all went to the same school. We all knew each other from graduate school, so maybe that was just a theme there. But it's something that I hear about a lot, that PiS want their students, especially their star pupils, like, apparently you were they want them to follow in their footsteps and kind of continue the legacy of the research that they're building. And so you have the opposite. You have someone who is just very supportive of you and your dreams and where you wanted to take your research. I think that's phenomenal.
[00:11:31] Speaker B: Yeah, I actually had complete opposite right experience than what you mentioned. All of the mentors I've had had been extremely supportive of it. In fact, they were the ones that saying you should do this, you could do this. And it's been for everything. I'm really grateful about that.
During my PhD, my advisors were actually two women.
And it's interesting, my lab mates always joke around because they call me the inbred child because you usually have one advisor, right, one mentor. But I had two. So they're like, oh, I don't know if that should be cut out. But they're like, you have two.
And then it was great for me. I got to work with two very smart, strong women. And to me, that really supported me to the point that I still talk to them. I would still talk about everything. I mean, science, from science to the kids. And I sometimes go to them, do you know, what do you do with your kids when they have this sickness or this and that? I still feel so comfortable to go up to them and talk about anything. And they've been extremely, extremely supportive for everything. So in that sense, I consider myself very fortunate and grateful.
[00:12:56] Speaker A: Honestly, I'm just thinking about this. And it's very remarkable that you had very supportive women that you worked with. And I won't name names, but there was a certain Pi in graduate school who reminded us very much of Miranda Priestley in The Devil Wears Prada because not necessarily in her attitude although she did have a very high opinion of herself. But she had this tendency to click clack down the hall in her high heels and you could hear them getting closer and we would all sit up a little straighter and look a little more productive.
It was one of those things. And I got the impression and I got the impression of this from a number of women at the university where I trained. A lot of them had this attitude of they kind of had to be hard and they had to be tough and they worked really hard and I give all of them an insane amount of credit for making it in a man's world, let's face it. But they really felt like they had to be tough and hard and have a thick skin and build these walls and they were kind of training us in that same realm.
We had to develop a thick skin. The problem was and maybe this is one of the reasons why I left the academics but insulting me does not give me a thick skin. It makes me want to dive into a pint of Ben and Jerry's.
[00:14:37] Speaker B: I told you my advisors are great. But I did have my fair share of experiences like that as well.
As much as I want to think this was horrible and at that moment I was very afraid of why would you do that? And then this is people that would even after knowing what they did they said I just want to make sure you understand that staying in science means that you have to really grow some thick skin. Right. You need to make sure that you really stand up for yourself. And they made it clear I mean, they said it straight like that not my advisors but other people that I had around me that also advised me and I took it in a positive way. Right. I think that it made me feel really pushed me to not really pay attention so much about the negativity but really look at the positive. Right. The fact that now I didn't feel that way necessarily to begin with because the things they told me about, right. Is that they were really treated even though they were the best in their class they were treated the worst just because they were women or they were diminished so much that they felt like they had to prove something. And to me, I felt very fortunate that I didn't have to go through that. I never really felt that way.
And I've heard the stories. I mean, they're terrible and these people were way smarter than their peers that were not females and yet they were treated as if they really low. But I like to take it as a positive that I didn't feel that way and I'm grateful and even if someone tried to make me feel that way, I took it more as a positive. I'm like, okay, let's put that behind. I understand what they went through. Now let's focus on what I have to do. Right. Again, I was trying to do the best that I can on whatever situation, whatever I decide to do.
I agree, and it's terrible because I felt really bad about all the things that I heard and it's sad. But on the bright side, I think I'm seeing that that's changing. It's changing more and more. At least I'm hopeful.
So hopefully a lot of the viewers are having a better experience than a lot of these women have had.
[00:17:04] Speaker A: I hope so.
It is cyclical, right? Because again, they felt like they had it hard in grad school, probably because their mentors, especially if they were female mentors, they had it even harder. So they feel like they need to toughen up the next generation and the next generation. So I guess for any of my listeners out there, you could be the one to break that cycle.
You don't have to train people the same way your mentor trained people. And I'm sure now in your company, I do want to ask how do you find that having that experience then changes how you deal with your direct reports? Like, how do you mentor the scientists in your company?
And do you think that was shaped by how you were mentored by these women?
[00:17:54] Speaker B: I think so. I mean, I'm always trying to be very positive, right, and look at the positive side of things. And sometimes we lack because we're so focused on that little part of science that we are working on. And we're like, oh, this didn't work. But it's like, okay, let's look at what is the positive out of that. Let's move on and not focus so much on that one failure. Let's move on and focus on what can be done, how can we fix it. And I think that's important for industry at least. Because if something's going to go wrong, let's say a drug is going to fail or something's going to go south, even though you don't like to say that, you want to make sure that it happens fast because you're dealing with millions and millions of dollars that are taking place. So you want to make sure that if something's going to fail, if you have an indication that something's going to fail, it's okay. Just know that we're going to move on to the next thing. And you're probably saving a ton of money to that company that eventually was going to spend a lot of money on clinical trials, but you're saving the money in the end. So don't focus so much on that negative result that you see, but focus on at the end. That's a good thing.
I think also just being very supportive because a lot of us have families as well. So we want to make sure that we're creating a space that is open to that as well. Being mindful of that. Especially for those of us who are women.
[00:19:30] Speaker A: Yeah, no, absolutely. Out of curiosity, because I like asking my guests this question. When you were in school and when those tough days came, what was your give it all up, throw it away and run up and do something else? What was that dream job?
[00:19:47] Speaker B: Oh, my goodness. Oh, God, yes. I mean, I definitely remember those days, trying at midnight, two in the morning in the lab because something didn't work. And I would have loved I mean, if I didn't do science, I would have loved to have a little cafe and just do export import of coffee. And I would love that. And I actually have a cousin who does that. He lives in Finland and he goes to Peru. He travels to all the different areas on the Andes and the Amazon and he actually gets to try the coffee, gets to do all these things, then brings the best to he his cafe. And I always thought that would be so cool.
I would get all the coffee I wanted, good coffee.
Maybe eventually I'll retire to that. I will do that.
[00:20:42] Speaker A: Yeah.
When you're not needed at Humanics on a day to day, then this could be but there you go. You open a cafe at the lower level, like right next to Humanics so that way people can still come and see you.
[00:20:57] Speaker B: That's a great idea.
[00:21:00] Speaker A: I actually have a clinician who I visit from time to time in San Francisco. And he actually is like a I think that if he wasn't an ophthalmologist, he would probably have been a real estate developer because he just loves that kind of a thing. And he bought a couple of apartments in his building and rehabbed them and rented them out.
Essentially he bought the building where his clinic is in and he rehabbed the area where his clinic is. And it's beautiful. But then on the bottom he put in like a bar restaurant. And I think it's brilliant because first of all, it gives his patients a place to go. We're running really behind. Why don't you here's a voucher. You can go down, grab a cup of coffee, and we'll let you know when we're ready for you. Or you just need to stop somewhere for lunch or whatever. It's right there. And he gets along swimmingly with those people. And I always thought that was such a clever idea.
[00:22:00] Speaker B: Yeah, no, I know exactly who you're talking about. And I always thought, great, I figured.
[00:22:06] Speaker A: He would let me see. So I guess my next question then would be once your let me start with this. How did you transition then from cancer to ophthalmology?
[00:22:20] Speaker B: Well, in grad school I continue working in that lab, but we couldn't get because this lab was not within the SUNY university. So I couldn't do my PhD with the person in charge of the lab I guess, that I was working at. So I had to find another advisor, and I found an advisor. I actually was not enjoying it so much.
And all of a sudden, I got an email from my actual advisors, who ended up being my PhD, my dissertation chairs, and she said, well, we're looking. I've been in discussions with some people at SUNY Downstate. They have a project for the eye. I'm not an expert, but I think you'll be great at it. And I'm like, you know what, let's meet. So we met, and I thought it was great.
I was up for the challenge. They were very upfront. We've never really worked so much in the eye before. So this is going to be new, and we think that you can take on this new venture really, because they didn't know if it was going to work or not.
And then I had to go and tell the other lab I couldn't stay there. And that was actually tough. They didn't take it very well. In fact, I was told that I didn't know what to do and that I'm probably very immature because of that. It was all sorts of things, and they apologized after. But I know talk about academia being very but I'm glad I did. I'm glad that I didn't let that stop me from leaving that lab and continue. I'm sure it would have been great if I stayed there, but I'm happy with the decision I made of really move on to this other lab.
[00:24:20] Speaker A: Okay, good. Yeah. I mean, it sounds like it was the right move for you.
And then, I guess in a sense, when you transitioned to a lab where you didn't really know much about the topic, that really says something about saying yes to opportunities. Even if you don't feel like you have expertise in it, it's a little outside your comfort zone, but maybe you should still say yes anyway.
[00:24:47] Speaker B: I completely agree. I think you really need to make sure that you're not afraid of saying yes to things that you're not comfortable with just when it comes to opportunities like that.
Because the way to see it, too, is what's the worst that can happen?
It's okay.
You can still get a PhD. Even with some of the negative data, you'll still get something out of it, and you'll still be able to move on.
You may not publish as many papers, but you will still be able to learn. So I took it as, this is an opportunity, let's take it and let's see what happens. Because you just never know.
[00:25:26] Speaker A: Yeah.
So then I guess let's move on to what first started as Glauconics and is now known as you started. You started the company before you defended or right around that same time. How did that timeline work out?
[00:25:46] Speaker B: So I was technically already done, but I didn't defend it yet. So I kind of was with Humanix. In fact, I had written already a grant that got funded and everything. It was the first grant I ever wrote and it was like, oh my goodness, I can't believe I got it while we already started Glauconics and we already even had our lab.
Then I defended, so we had to be careful with conflict of interest and all that. So we had to manage that with my advisors and certainly it was worth it. I'm glad we did. For us, it was really an opportunity that we really had to take. Right.
It was such a big it was really novel and we were getting such an interest from both industry and investors that we just could not say, no, let's wait another like three, four months or a year before know. So we had to move quickly and yeah, so that's how we started Glauconics a little bit before and I had to manage also doing my defense and graduating officially while still working at Glauconics.
[00:27:25] Speaker A: So I want to take a quick step back to introduce everybody to the premise of how Glauconics got started. And if I may, I want to at least I have never mentioned the tubecular meshwork on this podcast before, so this is the first time. But that's what my PhD was in and Karen's as well because basically what Glauconics did. And I remember the first time I heard you give a presentation at the Trabecular Meshwork Society and I was so excited about what you were offering because for our listeners, the trabecular meshwork is a very small strip of tissue inside the eye. And if you think about your kitchen sink, for example, in the front of your eye, you essentially have a faucet that's producing fluid and then you have the trabecular meshwork, which is like your main drain. There's also a second drainage pathway. I kind of equate that to being more like the emergency drain, but the tubecular meshwork is the first part of the main drain. And what's interesting about them is that this tissue has very interesting confirmation. And these cells essentially I'm going to do my hammock like I always do for my visual aid. I know this is a podcast, but for those watching on YouTube, it's essentially almost like a knit hammock with cross beams of extracellular matrix and these cells sit on this extracellular matrix. And normally, or I would say previously, we were growing TM cells on just flat cell culture plates or on glass substrate. Sometimes you might treat it with collagen to make it a little bit more realistic. But what Karen did with her expertise, and I'm going to let you take it from here, was essentially she was able to create a 3D tissue model that mimics the in vivo environment for the tubecular meshwork. And that level of physiologic relevance actually makes whatever you're investigating that much more use the same word that much more relevant to what you might actually see in the in vivo environment. And people have done studies to prove that. So I'll let you take it from here. Tell us more.
[00:29:49] Speaker B: Yeah. So after we had developed this technology and it was really exciting too, because you are not only talking about the trabecular meshwork, you also have the Schlem canal. Right. The inner wall of the Schlem Canal. And that's also a big area of research. And when you get the cells out of the eye, you culture them on flask or petri dishes. They lose a lot of their in vivo markers. Right. We found that in our model, we can actually maintain these markers, which was really exciting for us and for the field.
It was such a great opportunity to really see that data and be able to put it out there. That really got us connections with pharmaceutical companies. They wanted to use our technology. They wanted to really test some of their compounds. And that's really how the idea of creating a business around it started. It was really the opportunity and such a unique approach that really could serve an admin need. And they were asking for it. So we decided, okay, let's really see if this is really a viable business. Right. So Then I Took A Class, like A Business class, into How To Do A Business plan and All These Things That You Have To Do Around A Business and really work into understanding, do this customer discovery. Understanding is There A Market For this?
So dwelling more on the business side, which I had never thought about before. But I was able to learn because of the university I was in. They were really encouraging. A lot of startups and innovations out of the labs from the university. And so that really helped me. And it also got me to meet my co founders who actually still works with us. Right. They're the Chief science officer. And I think that's really great.
Not Science. I'm the Chief Science Officer. He's the Chief Technology Officer. And he's great in that sense. He had a lot of experience in pharma before. He's worked in pharma before. So that really helped to be able to balance out the kind of experiences and talents that we had to start glauconics. So I hope that answers a little bit of your questions or was able to follow through what you wanted me to discuss.
[00:32:26] Speaker A: Yeah, Absolutely. So let's talk briefly about IP or intellectual property. So how my understanding? I've never done this personally, but my understanding is that transferring intellectual property from a university setting to a company, especially if you're going to start a company, using that IP can be a very complex process and very convoluted. And so how were you able to navigate that?
[00:32:59] Speaker B: Yeah, it was certainly not black and white. Right. Especially for us because our university, especially the college of. Nanoscale science and engineering where we came out, focuses so much in semiconductor industry, right. For biotech, it was fairly new and they're actually used to doing this. They work with large semiconductor companies and they transfer IP all the time. So it's kind of like a norm. They just had not done it for biotech. So I kind of navigate a little bit more than you normally would. How to do, how to get the IP out of the university, relinquish, I guess to our lab or license, I should say, because we ended up licensing it from SUNY. But for us it was a great experience working with SUNY, we were able to work the terms. They understood that we had started this from the beginning. A lot of it was fairly new data that we had worked.
Really they were very fair with the terms. So actually it was a good experience.
I think what for me was very helpful is just going and telling them I don't know how to do this process, but can we make it work? And explaining that we had already clients interested or companies interested on the technology. And that I think helped a lot because they realized, okay, this is not just a technology that we're going to license and it's going to stay there. This is technology that's actually going to move forward. And actually the university was very helpful and really up to now, they still check on us how we're doing. They do get some royalties, right? So there are terms that we have to work on if we want to license it outside of Humanics, we would have to also negotiate those terms as well.
It's a lot of discussions and a lot of paperwork. But I think for us it was a great experience and I think what helped was really knowing that we had already clients or potential clients interested on this technology.
[00:35:18] Speaker A: Okay, did you use a lawyer for that or how did you negotiate?
[00:35:23] Speaker B: We did. We had to use a lawyer and also, I think just a lot of face to face conversations. Right. The great thing was that I was still within the university, so I was able to go and talk to them in person. So I was going to ask, where did this stand? Can I talk to this other person? So just doing the down and dirty work, right? Actually going and talking to them in person because a lot of times because it was fairly new, they would forget or not even forget, but they were trying to figure things out. So we're like, okay, let's go and try to figure out together.
So it was just kind of the idea of the squeaky wheel, the oil first yeah, sure. Became the squeaky wheel in a way.
And they were very nice.
[00:36:13] Speaker A: How did you find the power to do that? I mean, that sounds like something that would be really nerve wracking.
[00:36:18] Speaker B: I think it was really the fact that this was such a great opportunity, right? And it was such a great opportunity. We were seeing that the technology was so unique.
And again, I just did it. Right. And I think that's the thing, it does sound very daunting when we're talking about it, but I was already there. It didn't take much for me to walk a little bit to the office that was not too far from me and just try to have those discussions and just be very open. Right.
I'm a scientist, this is not my field. But I understand that there is this opportunity. We have already clients interested and can we do something? So I think just being very open with I really want to make this happen. Does the university want to make it happen? Yes or no? Because we need to act quickly. So I think just understanding that was very helpful. Or perhaps I was just very fortunate that they were great working to work with for Glauconics.
[00:37:28] Speaker A: And then I guess when they were dealing with you, they were still very down to earth and open to talking to you. Or did most of the heavy discussions have to happen between legal counsel? With the help of legal counsel?
[00:37:42] Speaker B: They were willing to talk to me. They were very willing to talk to me. So perhaps that helped a lot.
And also I had my advisors that knew who to talk to. So they were like, again, they were very supportive. They're like, she's going to take this technology, she's going to start the company. We have nothing to do here. It was our lab, but she's going to start the company. But they were very helpful. So I think in that sense, it goes back to having those supportive people on your corner. So that helped as well.
[00:38:20] Speaker A: How did you find those early clients? Or how did they find you? Is it from your peer reviewed articles?
[00:38:26] Speaker B: Yes, mainly from papers. So papers. And then as we started getting discussions with potential collaborators, the collaborators had worked. They consult for some companies and then we end up working with them. That way they end up learning about technology and being interested.
So it really happened mainly through the science right. That we put out there and through discussions with other key opinion leaders.
[00:39:02] Speaker A: Yeah, wonderful. I mean, in the early days, that must have been really scary to go from, I'm a graduate student and now I woke up today, I was a chief scientific officer. How does that feel?
That must have been scary.
[00:39:20] Speaker B: Yeah, it really was. But again, I think because the opportunity and the technology was there and we knew that if we did this, this could really help accelerate the development of drugs and it could help millions of people by helping moving this along.
So I think that really is what pushed us to continue. So I think it was the natural, like what I say again, right. The passion around the science that moves forward and just being doer. Right. Not sit still, inspect everybody to just hand you everything, just go out and try to do it. Try to ask, ask questions. Don't be afraid to ask.
[00:40:10] Speaker A: True. Absolutely. And how did you start meeting how did you meet your CEO? How did you meet some of the other folks that ended up being part of the executive chain with you?
[00:40:20] Speaker B: Yeah, so actually we had several CEOs for a while. We were in search. Right. And they were just not a good fit. At the beginning when we were a startup, we didn't know what we were doing. Not that we didn't know what we were doing. We were at least to find someone that fits our culture and that were able not just sitting down on their chair and tell us what to do, but that we're willing to actually put the work into.
I think it was a bit of a search. Right. And finally we got very fortunate to get I think the starts really aligned. Our current CEO happened to be having family around here. They had already worked extensive experience in Boston, in other companies, biotech companies, and she wanted to move in this area. And it just happened that we met through a mutual friend.
And she's great. She was a great fit, and I'm really grateful to have her there because again, you need to know what you don't know. And I just know that there are certain things I can't do and she's an expert. So in those things, or I should say she has way more experience on those areas than I do. So we can balance each other very well.
[00:41:44] Speaker A: There's one woman in particular that I think you and I both would consider a mentor of sorts. And one of her favorite sayings is basically it's okay to not know, but you hire the people who do.
[00:41:59] Speaker B: Yes. I think she gave me the same advice.
I know. Exactly. And I think that's also what helped me. That's what I kept thinking, especially when you're starting a company, you need to make sure that you don't have everybody being a scientist and having just one trait, right. One strength. You want to make sure that you balance it out and you get the business side and you get the legal side and you get the industry experience and then those who are heavy science oriented. So that really helped at the beginning. And now as we're growing, we realize how those foundations were extremely important.
So I agree. I second that. You really do have to make sure that you know what you don't know. And then once you realize what you don't know, hire the people to do.
[00:42:52] Speaker A: Yeah, I love that. And then looking at your company, so the people in charge of your company and a lot of your employees, it's so different from a lot of the other companies whose websites I see, and I hope this doesn't offend anybody, but a lot of chief executives at major companies tend to be older white men.
And to me, personally, I look at that when I consider job opportunities or when I consider who's my current company partnering with.
It's a little reflective to me. But what I've always loved about Humanix is that your company is full of just these powerhouse women. And it just seems like this incredible environment that you and your co founder and your fellow executives have managed to create.
Was that a conscious decision on your part? Or is this due to your amazing female mentors in grad school? How did that end up happening?
[00:43:56] Speaker B: I think it really happened organically.
It happened organically. And the folks that we interview happen to be women, like, the best equipped for the job that we were looking at that point. They happen to be best suited and happened to also be women. So that's how we just happened organically. And also, I think our advisors to one of them in particular was like one of her dreams, is, like, everybody from her lab would be hired by Mnemonics. Right.
And she happened to have a lot of women. I'm not sure if intentionally or not. And so we ended up working with a lot of them.
They had great experience that they gained during working with the labs and my former mentors. So then they end up working with us, and it's been great. So I think to answer your questions, it just kind of happened organically. And I'm glad that it did, because, like you said, they're powerhouses. So I'm really proud of my team. Really?
[00:45:04] Speaker A: Yeah. You have some amazing people who work there, and I genuinely love talking to you guys, even if I didn't have business with you.
I think the last conference I was at, I ran into your booth and I just sat down and had lunch with you guys because I just have so much fun talking to the people on your team.
[00:45:19] Speaker B: That's something very important that we cannot forget. Right. And we get this a lot from our clients that not a lot of CROs are like that, right?
That you feel so comfortable that you actually and then as we discuss and we have these friendly type of meetings, we're also talking about science, and we get to learn more about how we can work together, how we can better the study that we're doing. And I think that's also something important. Don't forget that this is not just, yes, it is a business. Yes, we are moving science forward. But at the end of the day, we're all people. And you need to have these conversations that are very candid, right? Even negative. You don't really share a lot of negative data, but when you're in a conversation, you may actually discuss some of that, and that actually may help and improve some of that. And I think that's something that we hear a lot, that our clients are able to do that with us, have those conversations and realize that we're also people.
[00:46:18] Speaker A: Yeah, for sure. So if anyone's listening who might be interested in starting a company after graduate school or after their postdoc and doing something similar to what you did, I guess, what would be the best use of their time now that would prepare them for something?
[00:46:37] Speaker B: If they're young and they are entrepreneurial and they know they want to go into doing a business or starting a business, I would definitely suggest go and get an MBA. Right. Go and get an MBA, because that's really going to be helpful if you know right off the bat that you want to be in entrepreneurship at all.
And if you are not sure, again, it goes back to what we said earlier. Know what you don't know and don't forget to ask questions. I think that's extremely important. So I think those are my couple of pieces of advice is depending on whether you already know that you want to go into industry, and if you're not sure, well, then just make sure that you're asking questions and trying to learn more.
Do you have an amusement? I don't, but sometimes I wish I did. But again, know what you don't know. And so I surrounded myself with people that do and they have experience. So that actually helped a lot.
[00:47:45] Speaker A: Yeah. Because when I was trying to make the decision of whether or not I wanted to pursue an MBA, I did ask a number of people at the company I was at at the time, particularly those who did have MBAs.
And the results were actually a mixed bag because some people said some people were very observant and they know me. And they said, you're the type of person who likes to learn things and likes a traditional classroom setting, in a way, formalized learning rather than ad hoc, reading articles on the Internet and stuff, which is true about me. Other people said, don't waste your money. You can find just about anything you need to learn on the Internet or in a book or in a podcast, I guess. When you say you wish you had gotten an MBA, what advantage do you think that would have given you?
[00:48:42] Speaker B: I think it might have helped me to think of this as a business from the beginning. Right. And I think maybe make things going a little faster, but I think in the end, being able to take those classes so a lot of people that were doing their MBA took these classes right. That I ended up taking at the university. So that actually helped a lot. But if you are already in my case, I didn't necessarily say I'm going to start a company. When I was young, my dream was not necessarily I'm going to start a company, but if you know already that as you're starting grad school that you do want to go into the entrepreneurial side, then I think I would recommend getting an MBA, because otherwise you're right. You can learn a lot in podcast classes and such. So I think what you're saying is completely correct. I second everything you said.
[00:49:38] Speaker A: Yeah. So then let's talk about hiring, because with my target audience, they might be hearing some of the things that you're saying about this amazing environment that you have or certainly reading about other companies that they might be interested in. For you personally, what do you look for in prospective new hires?
What makes somebody rise to the top and catch your eye?
[00:50:03] Speaker B: I think, first of all, that they have relevant experience to the job that we're looking at. Right. That's always one of the things that we're always looking for. Also that they have diverse strength than the ones we currently have in our labs, because we always want people their skills might be very unique, and that also enhances the environment, at least when we talk about the lab, enhances that environment and that learning.
That's going to happen because they're going to have to learn the technology, and then we also want them to have an input. Right. Is there something that you think could be done different? A lot of the new models that we're developing come from that. Right. Those discussions with some new hire that happen to have an expertise in XYZ, and they said, well, this is very similar to this other tissue, let's work on that. And it's like, great. They take on the lead on starting working, and that's really what starts innovation. So I think, again, having those skills that are unique to our team is very important and someone who has worked with new technologies that we may not necessarily be completely familiar with, it's great because again, it brings us up to speed in a way.
Diversity again, right. Bringing back those new technologies into a lot of the work that we're doing, I think those are the biggest thing relevant. Experience, strength, or skills that are unique to our team, I think those are the biggest.
[00:51:46] Speaker A: Okay, I've been asked in the past, and so since you brought up relevant experience, I want to ask you this.
Someone asked me once what percentage of qualifications, like, if you're looking at a job listing sorry, I just got some weird feedback there.
Thank you so much again to Dr. Karen Torahan for speaking with me today. Again, I do apologize about the sound quality towards the end. We're going to work on it, and we're going to get better as each episode goes by, so we appreciate your patience. One last thing. I do want to give a very special shout out to the pharmacology and neuroscience students at Loyola University Chicago who welcomed me last weekend for a seminar about careers outside academia and invited me to participate in some of their St albert's Day celebrations. It was wonderful to be back at my alma mater. Pretty much nothing has changed structurally and it was an absolutely fantastic experience. So thank you to those students and thank you all for listening. See you next time. It.
